Building a big big fan base in the West – Mitchell Dale, GWS Giants

This transcript has been transcribed by Riverside.fm, no edits (please excuse any errors)

Sean Callanan (00:01.752)
Very happy to welcome Mitchell Dale. He's the Executive General Manager of Strategy and Growth at the Greater Western Sydney Giants who play in the AFL. Mitch, welcome to the podcast.

Mitchell Dale (00:11.481)
Thanks for having me.

Sean Callanan (00:13.324)
Not a problem at all. I always start by asking people how they got their break and got their first gig in sports. What about yourself?

Mitchell Dale (00:22.241)
Technically, I'm probably still in my first gig in sport currently eight years in here at the Giants now. It was my first role in sport. I'd not come from a sport background or sports marketing background. I'd very much come from a marketing and comms and agency life prior to my time at the Giants. So yeah, very much on my first gig now.

Sean Callanan (00:47.412)
And for those who don't know, if they're listening outside of Australia, Giants are the second AFL team in Sydney, based in Greater Western Sydney. You're obviously from Sydney. Were you someone that was caught up in an understanding AFL or followed AFL when you came to the Giants?

Mitchell Dale (01:04.611)
No, absolutely not. was very foreign to me. I saw my first full game of AFL when I started at the club. I'd grown up, as you said, in Western Sydney, came from a rugby union following fan background. AFL was very much a new proposition to me and it was a very shared experience, I think, with the majority of our audience.

Sean Callanan (01:26.51)
So that's effectively, yeah, were effectively in one of your initial audience segments to go, how do I bring on board new fans? Very much, G-U-B-S is very much there to capture that big greater Western Sydney market. So was that sort of your first port of call to go, how could I be drawn into the AFL fold and into the giant story?

Mitchell Dale (01:51.779)
Yeah, absolutely. From a marketing background, mean, the understanding of empathy for your customer is huge and understanding the barriers and the different experience you have to approaching a product. And in our case, it is the AFL, but approaching a product from a standpoint of empathy and understanding what they're going through. The game is a very different prospect to what Sydney was very much used to. know, an 80-minute rectangular game is very common up

here and AFL experience is foreign. So I saw it as a great strength of mine being able to understand and go on that journey, which was very, very similar to growing new fans.

Sean Callanan (02:33.248)
And in that, you know, we've spoken to a bunch of different people who are in those startup phases, startup franchises, whether it's coming into a new market or started from scratch. in the GWS, it was both. Digital marketing was seen as a means to, I guess, start expanding that story, starting those customer funnels, starting to bring people in. What were some of your, I guess, first steps in the role when you sort of got there to say,

You know, how do I start recruiting new fans to the Giants?

Mitchell Dale (03:04.653)
Yeah, absolutely. That first initial understanding point of understanding your place in the market and the position and the brand awareness and the current interactions that our fan base were having with the product and with the game was really, really important. For me, I was able to go on that journey of understanding the product at the same time, but then also understanding what our current data points were.

what did our audience look like, what was the demographics that we were trying to connect in with and what were the quick wins were really important. Also understanding the digital landscape within the AFL and within the club at the time was really important. I remember one of the…

very first things I did when I got here was get a big sheet of A3 paper, draw out all of the platforms, understand how our fans were interacting with different pieces of our digital ecosystem and what the purpose was around all of those different platforms. And I think having that context really drove some of the initial wins that we had initially, but it also highlighted some of the gaps or quick wins that we could kind of get off the board early days.

Sean Callanan (04:10.796)
And so coming in initially as a digital marketing specialist, role evolved as you started to dive into the data, understand more about the audiences, your role changed to marketing, audience and insights. Were you really, know, as, normally you start with what data do we have? Then what does that data tell us? And then what's next? Like, was that sort of that process of building upon what you had and then running campaigns, seeing what was working that sort of made that role expand?

Mitchell Dale (04:38.935)
Absolutely. And then also the ways that we could kind of apply the approach that I talked to digital marketing space to brought apart to the business. We've I've tried to be informed as much as I can from the data and what we have available and try and make informed business decisions off the back of that. And whether that is, you know, from a marketing acquisition, getting more bums on seats, getting more leads into your database, or whether it's down to, you know, selling more scarves, more beanies on match day, I've really tried to gather the

insights and inform that decision making and kind of with that that change in my role has come about. think one of the other great things that I've certainly experienced up here is a willingness to collaborate and work with people.

I've certainly liked to connect the dots from a fan perspective and understand what a fan's going through and whether they're, you know, buying tickets on Ticketmaster or, or, you know, buying a piece of merchandise from our shop and understanding how all of those platforms work together and how they can efficiently work together. And I think that's put me in a great point now in my career where I am able to connect a lot of the dots across our broader business.

Sean Callanan (05:52.526)
And so, you know, in your multiple roles, you've been in consumer business acquisition now in strategy and growth as it always been with that, I guess, that fan point of view and I guess growing the pool of growing that fan base for the giants.

Mitchell Dale (06:06.328)
Yeah, I mean my

current role now focus primarily on three key areas, is the overall strategy and making sure that we're achieving a medium and long-term vision for what we hope the club will be. The growth, unlocking growth in sort of all sectors of the business, whether that be assisting with our consumer team in getting more bumps on seats or whether it's new business streams or new revenue streams or more effective relationships as well. And then the third part is tech

and insights, so utilizing the great sources of data that we have, not just our own data, but market data around what our fan demographics look like, what our regions look like, and applying that to a business sense as well.

Sean Callanan (06:54.67)
And you sort of spoke about different things like, you know, a lot of the times the AFL is really, really focused on membership and, you know, membership tallies and who is a member. And it's, you know, it's a real strength of the AFL. think, you know, the last reports over a million, a million Australians hold it an AFL club membership, but, but it's, but it's more than membership. It's, know, someone just might buy a scarf. Someone might just be following you from a social point of view, or they might go to an activation or they might go to, you know, something with your, with your partner.

how do you sort of juggle, I guess, some of those different priorities?

Mitchell Dale (07:27.927)
Absolutely. And I think you speak to the great scale of the AFL and the great audience opportunity that is available for us as the Giants. We are a generational play where one that's going to tap into one of the greatest sports marketing opportunities or just general audience opportunities in Western Sydney. Now there's currently more people living in the West of Sydney than there are in the East of Sydney. So being here is a real strategic priority for growing

our game and growing our club. What we like to consider as a business is how we interact with customers at all stages of the funnel. In some respects for us as a new proposition, it's just as important, you know, making sure people are viewing our content online or watching our games in the pub as it is attending, you know, games. We definitely, you know, keep track of all of those really key.

lower down funnel KPIs and metrics, know, bums on seats, revenue and all of those sorts of things. But given our life cycle, it is just as important to grow those top of the funnel pieces as it is, you know, continuing on that fan journey and building that ability.

Sean Callanan (08:41.1)
And that's, I guess that generational piece. So again, you don't have the, you know, the history and the generation upon generation, you know, the dad that just tells the son or the daughter that, you know, this is your team. You're starting from scratch with a lot of these and different, you know, different groups, different, either, you know, multicultural groups or just people in the city or just, you know, locking on getting a kid when they're five, six, seven, and knowing that if you get them right, then they will be a fan for life. I mean, your role.

and in that growth and strategy pieces is a lot different to those clubs that had that generational pool of fans that have been multi-generations.

Mitchell Dale (09:21.519)
Absolutely. The conversation, you know, in other markets, you can go to your local cafe and they'll know.

every player and everyone's got a team. And that's certainly not the case yet in Western Sydney. We certainly hope that it'll grow to a stage that it is for us. It's very much about engaging that new audience. So a lot of the work that our community team do, our consumer team, our media team do can sometimes be about, you know, we're part of the AFL. This is what AFL is and we're the club for you. And it can be those introductory elements that are just as important. So when we start to look at

about the scale of our market and the growth opportunity, we do have to put a lot of time and effort into understanding what that growth looks like and what that market looks like because they are new to our ecosystem. They're new to our, in many respects, they're to our country at the same time, right? So it changes the way that you go about things.

Sean Callanan (10:22.368)
And from a, you know, having a lot of interface over your time, you know, with the consumer team, like you said, from a membership and a ticketing point of view, but then also, you know, retail, you've got a vibrant brand with the orange and the charcoal in sort of working different ways, whether it be different jerseys or different like retail activations, how important has that been in the journey? And then do you still get a little pep in your step when you're walking through Sydney and seeing someone with a hat or a scarf or

or a T-shirt activation that you ideated on six to 12 months ago.

Mitchell Dale (10:57.517)
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's always exciting to see fans in the wild. I mean, we get the great benefit of being able to interact with our fans at home games and see that experience. to see people love our brand and love our apparel and…

those sorts of things and wear them proudly, you know, in their day to day life is really important. We've we've made some strategic decisions over the last, you know, certainly five, 10 years around how do we, you know, integrate our brand into lifestyle? And how do we make it something that's aspirational, but also something that's a little bit different and cuts through? I think our our never surrender jumper is a great reflection of that. Retail and apparel is probably the

most visual execution of your brand. So it's really important that it reflects the values and what you're putting forward in your core messaging.

I think the other great part about our club is that we've often said we're unencumbered by history. So what it allows us to do is to try things differently and try and roll out different executions. And even, you know, that can be as micro as what our EDM comms look like or, you know, changing all of our, you know, Guernsey designs year in, year out. It can give us a platform to challenge and to grow in a different way.

Sean Callanan (12:20.608)
And from a, cause you're in that role of, you know, setting the strategy and growth and you're at a, you know, you're at a club that is still on a growth trajectory and looking at that long-term, how do you have your, you know, how do you report your metrics and what success looks like for, you know, year on year? Cause yeah, you've still got to, you know, fill cheeks on the seats and, and get certain number through the door, but you also got to say, well, this campaign or this activation or this initiative.

is a longer term play and it will pay off later. How do you balance that? also how do you report that, we are having success?

Mitchell Dale (12:55.959)
Yeah, I think that's a strong balance that you have to strike there because there's certainly, you know, there's short term KPIs and there's short term metrics that you really need to deliver to ensure that you are still growing the club. But it's about having one eye on, you know.

What does our presence across Western Sydney look like? What is a growth trajectory through the ACT and Southern New South Wales look like at the same time? And many of these things may not have short term return, but they'll have long term gains. think one of the great things that I heard the other week is if you think about it now in terms of our audience, the five year old that was living in Parramatta when the club started playing in the AFL is only now in charge of their money and is only just now considered

you know, a young person wanting to attend games for himself. So we're sort of hitting now that first generation of people in our region that have grown up with the Giants being here. So it is always about, you know, making sure you deliver on those short-term metrics, but having one eye on the future is very important as well.

Sean Callanan (14:04.234)
And you, I I often talk about that fan escalator. You're sort of either using social, using community events and slowly, but surely they become closer to the club. And hopefully they get to that point. They go, here you go, Mitch, here's my credit card. Just keep using it every year. And sort of that's the pinnacle that you work in the consumer business. Do you have some of those milestones to sort of say, I know where that fan is now and we want to keep nurturing me along?

Mitchell Dale (14:33.807)
Absolutely, that life cycle piece is critically important for us to keep monitoring and understanding that the person that may attend their first game on a low cost ticket may eventually turn into a membership. So we've spent a lot of time utilizing not only our digital strategy and things like our marketing tools to ensure that we're encouraging that future expenditure and that greater avidity, but it's also about cultivating those really core

fans for us that are going to become our advocates and bring people along at the same time. So we're monitoring kind of all levels where we can across that fan experience and across that life cycle.

Sean Callanan (15:16.844)
And is there a little bit of, I guess, difference in the market? Because you have got, you know, such a big market there, like you said, more people living closer to your stadium and in the Western Sydney than anywhere else that, you know, the normally the model is, let's get everyone to be signing up and coming to every single home game. You've got a bigger market, whereas you might just want that mix of, I want people to come to a couple of games, whether it be a mini game membership or buying some singles and sort of

at least expanding the amount of people that have gone to a game for the years, that's sort of a diff, a bit of a shift or a different strategy than, you know, we've got that one side, we want to fill it out. And that's how it is because you sort of want that wide, wide catchment area.

Mitchell Dale (15:57.423)
Absolutely, our consumer team and in particular our membership and ticketing team do a great job now of servicing all of those different levels, whether it's via our groups program where we're encouraging people to come and attend with all of their friends for their very first game or whether it is selling, you your full season memberships. There's a product or a touch point that services everyone along that customer journey.

And there's also content and experiences that service that as well. So it's one of the strengths, I believe, of our business and of our sport, of our club, that we're able to create something that attracts people at every level of their life cycle with us. And whether you're attending our first game or whether you're attending your 11th for the season, we've got an experience tailored to deliver that.

to what you want.

Sean Callanan (16:52.718)
And then one of the things that does get a lot of press and a lot of online buzz is, I guess, the strategy and the means that the Giants do on social media. It's a bit of humor, a bit of left field, sometimes even bit of trolling. How did that sort of, I guess, develop and sort of give the Giants a bit more of a persona and buzz online?

Mitchell Dale (17:14.819)
Yeah, I would love to claim credit for that, but I absolutely cannot. Our media team do an incredible job of being that real life execution of what our brand is. We don't pull any punches on social, as many have seen, but we're also a very strong reflection of what our brand is. We want to be a club like no other.

And that definitely means that you sometimes have to challenge what we're doing and you have to do things differently. And the cut through that the team has been able to deliver has been exceptional.

It is a very real experience of our brand and a really strong reflection of what the Giants are. And I mean, we are and have been that entertainment proposition since very early days. We needed something different to cut through in this market. And that's just one part of what our overall strategy is for growth.

Sean Callanan (18:10.03)
I mean, that's the thing you're sort of saying in market, you've got rivals in market that are in the same sport. Sydney Swans have been in the Sydney market for much longer, but then you've got rivals and other sports in market. How do you tackle that and keep the giants in the conversation in the Sydney market? Because it's just as much as Melbourne. It's a really cluttered and competitive sports market.

Mitchell Dale (18:35.299)
Yeah, Sydney is very competitive market. And I mean, in some respects, we're competing for the same eyeballs, but in many respects, we're not. quite complementary to a lot of the other teams. And I think that's shown with a lot of the relationships that we've had with particularly our closest neighbors in the sporting landscape and the work that teams have done to cross promote and to connect with other sporting teams within our precinct has been really valuable. The bit up in that we probably don't acknowledge

enough in Sydney and in Western Sydney is that we're not necessarily competing with those opportunities all the time or those sports clubs for that eyeballs. You know, we're competing for time, we're competing for a bit of the in Sydney. You've got some great options. You can go to the beach, you can go to the movies. In some respects, you're almost competing with Netflix for time, right? So we have to carve out our connection point and know what we're know what our key proposition is to engage that audience to make sure

they're going to have a great time and enjoy the great footy that is the Giants.

Sean Callanan (19:40.206)
And so is that then come back to, you know, I guess those different offerings that you might have, whether they be the events you do, you know, the pure ticketing product and I guess having that flexibility is sort of disgust of having different ticketing products because you've got a different fan base, you know, things like buying, you know, 10 tickets and being able to spread them with all your mates at the one match and those kinds of things are things where you've sort of looked at the data and said, well, these are the things that we can try in this market.

Mitchell Dale (20:09.933)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it extends even beyond that consumer space as well. It extends into the work that our incredible community team do and the way that they're able to get our brand front and center with new audiences via a football adjacent product. It's also partnering in with the great teams at AFL New South Wales, ACT and the AFL on how to grow the game more broadly in our market.

Sean Callanan (20:38.316)
Or that's the other thing that, you know, that I wanted to sort of touch on that, you know, ever since you've been in the role, you've not only been selling the giants, but you also been selling the game and explaining the game and telling people what the game is and what the game offers. It does that remain, I guess, a core tenant and the thing that you have to keep doing in the market, because like you said, it is generational and you know, if the kid likes the giants, what's the come, but you've still got to

do the education piece so the mum and dad know what they're coming is like that a key piece of like what you need to do when you are reaching out to new fans.

Mitchell Dale (21:14.607)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for us, the changing face of Western Sydney and even to some extent down into ACT and Southern New South Wales is that there's so many new people that are coming into our community and into our region that that education piece does remain top of mind. And it is something that we have to do in New South Wales generally. AFL is not the priority sport up here in terms of our market, know, NRL and

many other sports have done a fantastic job to integrate into the community. for the short term, absolutely, we do need to educate on what the AFL is and showcase that we are the team for them. And we hope to show that we reflect the community that we're in.

Sean Callanan (22:00.75)
Absolutely. Then the other thing from, when you're in that strategy role and a lot of the time that is 30,000 foot view, how do you get, I guess, feedback and the right feedback from different departments to sort of know how things are going from an execution point of view, like you the boots on the ground.

Mitchell Dale (22:19.639)
Yeah, so we, one of the great experiences that I've certainly had at the Giants is the great collaboration that we have across the executive team and all parts of the business because we are a growth.

team and we're trying to grow in this market, it forces collaboration to a level that is really productive. We rely on teams to deliver certain things, to deliver, you know, whether it's a digital campaign or whether it's a partnership. So that method and that collaboration is really key to the success and that connectedness as well around our data and insights and the implications that it can have, you know, shifts in, know, viewership

numbers or attendance can make a difference in what a partnership value looks like or you know where our community team is based for the week is just as important as where our ticket sales are at. So it's also about relying on the outputs of the team and making sure that we're communicating regularly. But as part of my role in strategy, I do act as that connector internally and try to look at that, as you said, that

overarching view and see where there are opportunities to connect in or where there's opportunities for progress across all other teams.

Sean Callanan (23:39.958)
And so it effectively is that, effectively internal consultant, whether it's working with the commercial team or helping the consumer team with what they want to do in ticketing or helping the comms team understanding the reach and the impact of certain pieces, that's sort of where your role sort of fits.

Mitchell Dale (23:56.661)
Yeah, absolutely. It is that overall connector position and that as you said, an internal consultant, we've got some incredibly talented people at the Giants and it's not my role to tell them how to do their role or how to do that better. It's about connecting the dots and seeing the opportunities more broadly across the club. internal consultant is absolutely the best way to describe it.

Sean Callanan (24:21.836)
Yeah, I think when I was talking to Jim Caruso, he talked about it being an intrapreneur, like someone that's coming up with ideas, but internally for the org on on what what you can do. And I'm sure that's something you're doing when you know, you're seeing, you know, one department over here, one department over there, and you're connecting and it's actually there is either a process or a tool or a system that can actually help solve some of those problems.

Mitchell Dale (24:46.639)
Yeah, absolutely. And we've made some strong decisions over my time at the Giants to use data and insights to really inform a lot of our business decisions.

Being in my role and being able to have a direct relationship with the tools and oversight over how the tools get rolled out means that it does make that a lot more efficient, but it does give me that insight into how a lot of their teams work, what are their operational headaches, what are their wins, and maybe where we can collaborate better across the club.

Sean Callanan (25:21.334)
And so, you know, if you think back to your first couple of days when you were there eight years ago to now, what do you know about the Giants fans now that excites you for the next five years?

Mitchell Dale (25:35.943)
So it's light and day compared to when I joined. When I joined the Giants, we didn't have marketing automation. We didn't have a fully enterprise-level CRM solution.

Which wasn't out of step with the broader AFL industry at the time, but we were very much Getting prepared to make those changes and to grow and then and then to now where we do have a fantastic data warehouse solution We've got a an incredible CRM solution that's connecting across all of our teams almost on the business side we've got a real understanding of our analytics and what our content streams look like that we are truly able to understand what

and what connects with our fans. We're also, you know, constantly paying attention to ABS data and what migration patterns look like and connecting with councils, which allows us to understand what's next for our region. So it's not just about understanding what our current fans look like. Our teams do an incredible job servicing our fans and making sure that they are front and center of everything that we do. But it's also about where are we scoping the next fan and

and what are the insights that we currently have that will allow us to unlock further growth.

Sean Callanan (26:59.022)
Absolutely. And so the next five years, you're looking, looking ahead. Where do you, where do you see, I guess, whether it's your position or how your position evolves over the next five years and like, what does growth look like?

Mitchell Dale (27:13.323)
Yeah, I mean, there's always going to be that level that we're going to be assessed on those short term goals. Like we said, we would, you know, firmly focused on growing attendances, growing membership.

growing those more traditional AFL KPIs, but then there's also that broader audience development piece and growing the more eyeballs that we're able to connect with. What we hope for in the next five years is, know, continue the great run of success that we've had from a football perspective, but also continue the great run of success that we've had from a business growth perspective. We've matured as a business where we're certainly accelerating a lot of the work that we've done.

staying on that same trajectory is really important to us. So continuing more, and then I guess more from my role.

I we've touched on it's been a journey for me. I've had lots of different roles within the club and had the ability to connect in with a lot of different teams. So for me, my role over the next five years is to continue doing more of what I'm doing, to continue learning every day is very much different and you learn something new every day. So being able to learn more and progress our club strategy more is certainly at the heart of what we see in the next five years.

Sean Callanan (28:36.27)
Absolutely. And then from a tech stack and digital point of view, as I said, early days it was moving from Excel spreadsheets and data and those kinds of things to full CRMs and marketing automation and the like. Is there any tech and any trends you want to tap into in the near future?

Mitchell Dale (29:00.937)
I mean, that would be silly not to say AI is a key focus for us and certainly something that we're exploring. it's not necessarily, you know, the form that it's in today, you know, content generation or, you know, the different models that we're able to tap into it's how do we use it to optimize our business operations and how do we use it to grow?

the effectiveness of our business is probably a very key priority for us. It's not a new thing. It's certainly not something that's unique to our club, but it is certainly one that we're keen to tap into and utilize and the team where we have utilized it or where it's embedded within the tools that we certainly already use. It's been really effective, but we're ultimately keen to see where this AI path takes us and where we can get

more outputs out of it.

Sean Callanan (29:58.796)
Yeah, definitely. think that that piece of, you know, nearly every tool these days is now, you know, now with AI included, it's like a new sticker that gets put on the next version. So like this way to use it there. But then, yeah, like you said, the ability to, you know, do things more efficiently, you know, back of house operations, those kind of things. Because, you know, sports clubs still, you know, run big operations with, you know, lean teams.

Mitchell Dale (30:06.959)
Yeah.

Sean Callanan (30:25.462)
So it is right for that, but yeah, it is going to be interesting to see how that develops over time and which of the add-ons, the integrations work, and then also which ones need to be customized and built out for you and your market and your fans. So it's going to be interesting and exciting space.

Mitchell Dale (30:45.177)
Absolutely, and the way that it can improve the fan experience overall, think is going to be an exceptional way to progress the tools available and making sure that the fan remains at the centre of our considerations for how we progress our digital strategy will be critical to that.

Sean Callanan (31:06.016)
Absolutely. Well, Mitch, really do appreciate you taking the time. I want to get to the Sports Geek Closing Five. Do you remember the first sports event you ever attended?

Mitchell Dale (31:16.879)
for me it probably would have been a Waratahs game at the SFS. Growing up in Sydney my father was a big rugby union fan and I don't think we ever left wanting to attend a game at the SFS but probably the event that stands out to me most was the Bledisloe Cup I think year 2000, 110,000 odd out here at what is now a core stadium. I think that one was the the bit for me that resonated in what the power of sport

holds and what it can do to impact lives.

Sean Callanan (31:51.79)
Absolutely. You would have been to a lot of sports events in your time and obviously a lot of Giants events and the food game in stadiums across the world keeps going up. Do you have a favourite food or a favourite food memory at a sports event?

Mitchell Dale (32:07.033)
the favourite? I don't think you can go past stadium hot chips and tomato sauce, if I'm honest. Even as basic as that sounds, I think it brings back a great sense of nostalgia and it's certainly an experience I remember loving as a kid and even now.

Sean Callanan (32:23.886)
Absolutely. What's the first app you open in the morning?

Mitchell Dale (32:31.449)
probably it would either have to be the news app where I've got all my customized feeds from publishers coming through or Outlook. Of course, I get the Sportsgate newsletter sent to my email, but also a lot of the other publicly available newsletters that share a lot of business information or sports business information are really important to me.

Sean Callanan (32:57.006)
It's terrific. Is there someone that you follow? It might be someone you follow on social media or someone that you follow on LinkedIn or an author that the podcast listeners should give a follow on why.

Mitchell Dale (33:06.703)
Probably not a follow, but Jim Collins, Good to Great is probably a great book. It's one that I've only just recently finished. It's a great read, but probably if you're looking for some lighthearted content, The Savannah Bananas is a great bit. I think what they've done to create entertainment out of…

baseball has been exceptional and their journey has been really, really exciting to watch. And I think even as a thought starter for any of us that work in professional sports, they're an incredible showcase of what you can do.

Sean Callanan (33:45.87)
Um, yeah, absolutely. I mean the, the, you know, the fact they put the fan at the center and revolve everything around their event and they've just gone from strength to strength and build this fandom for, you know, what is the minor league? Like effectively the, the baseball Harlem Globetrotters is what they've effectively built out, but, amazing to do it in this day and age. And, know, you can learn a lot from either what they're doing from an event experience, but then also, you know, how they're telling the story on social, how they're leveraging their own players, how they're

even just reporting and covering their own events. And not to mention, you know, the amazing ticket sales when you keep seeing the latest, know, bananas game at an NFL field and those kinds of things, they keep going from strength to strength. So it has been nominated before, it's well worth another nomination. Lastly, and I can only ask this both personally and professionally, so you can put your Giants hat on, but what social media platform is

is your MVP.

Mitchell Dale (34:44.719)
It's a tough one to discern between the two. think Instagram is an incredible platform. It's got the power of storytelling. It's got, you

great ability to create user generated content. So I guess probably across the board, it would have to be Instagram. I'd certainly find myself consuming it way more than I probably should be, but it is definitely, it's a real winner and it connects with fans and it also delivers the content that most of us are looking for.

Sean Callanan (35:18.158)
Absolutely and it is a multiple nomination. Mitch, really do appreciate you taking the time. Good to catch up again. I always ask people to say thank you and reach out if they want to reach out to the guests. What's the best place for them to reach out to you?

Mitchell Dale (35:35.811)
LinkedIn for sure.

Sean Callanan (35:38.242)
Beautiful. Well, I'll put the links to all the GWS Giants socials and and as we said there they're worth a follow just for the even just for the lolz And also links to Mitch's LinkedIn Mitch. Thanks very much for coming on the podcast

Mitchell Dale (35:53.497)
Thanks for having me.