Driving value from sponsored content – Alex Kopilow, New York Mets

This transcript has been transcribed by Riverside.fm, no edits (please excuse any errors)

Sean Callanan (00:01.442) Very happy to welcome Alex Kopilow. He's the Director of Media Partnerships at the New York Mets, and he's also the founder of SponCon Sports Newsletter. Alex, welcome to the podcast.

Alex Kopilow (00:14.431) Hey, thanks for having me, Sean. Been a fan for a long time, so glad to join the show.

Sean Callanan (00:19.022) Thank you very much. Appreciate it. I always ask people on the podcast, how they got their start in sports. What about yourself? How did you get your start in the world of sports?

Alex Kopilow (00:29.195) You know, it was a long road. actually started my career as a sports anchor in local news. So I was shooting, writing, editing all my own stuff for local TV, everywhere from Sioux Falls, South Dakota to upstate New York to down in Knoxville, Tennessee. So I actually did that for about five to six years and then wanted to get out of the business, kind of get back to my Monday through Fridays back in big cities. I'm originally from New York, so I wanted to at least be back in that big city feel. So I changed fields.

went into public relations because everybody says, hey, journalists can go into PR. And so I moved to Chicago. And so I spent what was the next couple of years in different agencies and what I consider my master's degree in digital marketing because I always had clients with a digital strategy spin. So I've worked on organic social strategy, paid media, creator marketing. And then eventually my biggest opportunity was with Golan in Chicago where

Sean Callanan (01:04.131) Yeah.

Alex Kopilow (01:27.367) was helping with 360.

Sean Callanan (01:27.63) So what I want to do is I to, I like to slow down. like to slow down. People like to skip over the early steps, but like for me, the early steps are really important. like initially you're in that sports journalism slash content creator slash doing everything, which is what, know, whether you're a sports anchor, you did fill in, you did some play by play. Was it something that you always wanted to get into sports? Was that your original dream to be a broadcaster or a sports broadcaster? Was that the initial dream?

Alex Kopilow (01:33.279) Okay.

Yeah.

Right.

Alex Kopilow (01:43.84) Yeah.

Alex Kopilow (01:56.681) That was the dream. I wanted to be an anchor on SportsCenter for ESPN and…

You know, it was, I got a little bit of help from a friend. Like I worked very hard in school to do that, but I had a buddy who was out at the ABC station in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. And he said, Hey, you graduated, you're still looking for a job. Why don't you come, you know, sleep on an air mattress in my apartment out in Sioux Falls, come intern, and maybe it'll turn into something full time. And so I worked that football season with them. I was able to build some good equity with them and I was able to go full time. So that was like my first step into

it, being able to be out in the field and really learning how to do it all from every single angle. And that was at a time when news stations were really starting to struggle in terms of capturing attention for local ratings. And so what was the best next step? It was going to social media. So it was using Twitter, especially for those real time updates of sports events. It was learning to use our YouTube channel for archival content and Instagram literally had just started. So even that was coming into the fold. So.

That's kind of what piqued my interest down the line once I got out of the business in terms of social strategy, but it was very much a part of what I had to do on the TV side.

Sean Callanan (03:10.35) And then you talked about sort of moving to agency side and sort of learning bit more about the, I guess, the digital, the marketing, the PR side of things, what brands were looking for. And just, you know, I've looked over your LinkedIn, you sort of did some PR, you did some paid social, you're a senior digital manager. Was that, I guess, a good grounding? Because you got to see what brands wanted and what they were trying to do in the space. like, in essence, how tough it is for brands to get cut through in across social and digital.

Alex Kopilow (03:39.691) Yeah, and was good for me to learn how to be in a corporate environment. mean, I needed to know what I didn't know. I had restarted to the point where…

You know, I was an intern at 27 years old when I broke back into the agency side. And I remember going to happy hours and there was people who couldn't drink. So like, I was really starting from the bottom and I really understood how to communicate over email, communicate across departments, which is a big skill that I still use today. And then yes, absolutely. Like learning how to work with brands directly and how they break through. I've worked on everything from like the big 10 conference and how they were using organic social media. When I was in agencies, I've worked

for beauty brands, I've worked in B2B trying to sell insurance covered breast pumps through paid social media. And then of course, like Brandside, got to work with McDonald's and the McDonald's All American Games where I really got to cut my teeth and true 360 strategy to national and global level. So it really did help me understand of like how to be purposeful with everything that we do.

why you make those decisions and how to be so organized in the communication across not only your internal team, but with your clients and with other agencies. I think honestly agency life has helped me stand out on the sports side because of all those skills that you build working in agencies.

Sean Callanan (04:59.298) Yeah, definitely that account servicing and making sure everything is right is definitely a strength of agency side. So as you were doing more and more of that, you sort of touched on a few sports clients and you sort of got dragged back into the sport. Was it always a goal to go to the majors, so to speak, and end up at a pro sport and go on the team side? Was that something that you were both looking for and building your skill sets for?

Alex Kopilow (05:26.185) Yeah, you know, I'd made peace with the fact that like it might never happen. And, you know, I was always looking for it. It was really great that I got to touch it again with the McDonald's all American games. Sadly, it was during a couple of COVID seasons, but still like getting me back on the sports side. But, you know, I was one of those people like many, I'm sure listening to this podcast that was following teamwork online. You apply all the time, you get rejection six months later.

And it just finally started to crack through. I had an opportunity to go into MLS that it didn't end up where I wanted to go at the time during COVID. But the Chicago White Sox called me up. I was a local at the time being out there. And it was a great opportunity to go into an organization that was trying to evolve their digital strategy. they had brought in

guys from the Chicago Bulls because it's the same ownership to really level things up on the digital side. And their first hire was a digital partnerships manager. And that was me. You know, they were looking for someone who was solutions oriented, who had that agency background. And so I was brought in as the first person to try and come in and drive revenue through all digital engagement. That's organic, social, paid, social, email, website, app, organize inventory, make proper valuations, and of course, communicating with

both connecting the partnerships team, the content team, and then the league as well. So that's how I was able to break back into sports and I've tried not to leave ever since I finally got my shot.

Sean Callanan (06:57.934) I mean, and those roles, and we're only talking, you know, 2021, those roles are still being formed because we've, you know, we've discussed on this podcast, ad nauseam, it's something that I do all the time of trying to get that, being that conduit between the commercial team, the sponsorship team and the digital delivery, social comms, you know, what they're doing. They're doing a great job creating all this content, engaging the fans, but how can we commercialize it? So that was at the Wysox at the time.

the first role, the first person that was sort of working between those two.

Alex Kopilow (07:31.891) Yeah, yeah, was. The Chicago Bulls, they're one of the few teams in pro sports, at least in North America, that actually have this position. And they had had it, they'd seen the success because ultimately, this is a role that its responsibilities are either bundled into a social media director's role, and they don't have time for it, or it's latched onto someone on the partnerships team who doesn't understand digital. So they had seen the proven success with themselves. So they knew it was a priority when they brought

it over to the White Sox and I was the first person to hold that role there.

Sean Callanan (08:06.168) mean, and it is something that is a mind shift from both sides, both the Digi teams that have focused on engagement, in some cases follow accounts and how big their audiences are getting and those kinds of things. they really haven't, early on didn't have a revenue focus to begin with. was growth, grow the platform, engage the new platforms. But you came at it, I guess in that role to say, well, we're looking at the revenue line. We're looking at how we can commercialize the different assets.

It's always a tough starting point. What was it like going in there as effectively the first person and potentially maybe mending some fences? What was some of those first steps for you, even though you had the, I guess the relationship with the Bulls and some success in that side of the business, but it still wasn't related, it still wasn't their business. What was those first couple of weeks like?

Alex Kopilow (08:57.321) Yeah, I mean, it's honestly the same anywhere I've been. It's tough in the beginning and to the White Sox credit, they handled it pretty impeccably, but it's all about building trust. mean, this is a position that if you're making people a little bit happy and a little bit upset at the same time across the organization, you're doing your job very, very well. And the key was really how do you build trust? So I was technically part of the digital team, but I sat.

directly with the partnerships team and I thought that had a lot of its advantages. Now I had my background in content so I was able to connect with the digital team pretty well. I understood everything and that's really important for this role. Just like they know they have someone who can trust, who understands digital, who can bring ideas that are native to their platforms, that don't feel like ads, that are servicing our fans. And so I made sure to do that and also on game nights where…

Most times, if you work with the partnerships team, you're probably trying to entertain clients, making sure their activations are going right. I actually worked with the digital team and I was helping pull highlights down from the service that we had, writing captions, compiling highlights for our YouTube game recaps. And so I was building some equity on that side while also sitting very closely with partnerships and helping make…

digital media approachable, not making people feel stupid for asking questions of the difference between an Instagram story and an Instagram reel and making it very easy to understand, not just for internal stakeholders, but our clients as well. And so when the partnerships team saw that, I can be of assistance on a sales call on an activation call and help our clients, they really bought in, leaned into it, and it unlocks more revenue and also just more of their time. They just don't have to deal with this and something they might not know necessarily.

Sean Callanan (10:44.376) I mean, and even something that you said, the fact that you are sitting near the partnerships team, like you can hear the deals as they're starting to form. You can hear what the sponsors are sort of wanting. And so you can sort of get in front of that to say, well, they want brand awareness. This is the type of assets that work for that. And just that pace. it's, know, we look for tech solutions. We're like, we need a Slack channel. Sometimes it's like the physical.

turning up to a meeting or being co-located near the team actually brings the, guess, makes the thing work.

Alex Kopilow (11:21.019) It's a huge difference. mean, proximity, it does matter. It's just you're in it every day. That's where you can build those relationships. And it's just so, so important because, I mean, where this normally goes wrong.

is someone with a content background is not in that one meeting or that hallway conversation and something gets sold that makes no sense for digital but nobody knows it at the time and it all goes awry and that's where these terrible relationships come from. So having someone in that proximity really helps make sure that those bad deals don't go through anymore.

Sean Callanan (11:55.416) So from the White Sox, you went across to Madison Square Garden in a same or similar role. How was that role same or similar or different to what you did at the White Sox?

Alex Kopilow (12:05.533) Yeah, very similar role. was my first time I got to go back home to New York in 15 years. So that was a bit of a coming home for me. But also I knew it was an opportunity to take the skill set that I really had built with the White Sox and level it up. It's it's bigger brands, it's bigger revenue, a lot more eyeballs on it. And so it was, yes, a similar role. was kind of a person who was brought in to handle the digital side of partnerships for the Knicks, for the Rangers and even expanding into their entertainment

portfolio with things like the Rockettes and Nick's gaming and so on and so forth. So that was really an opportunity to grow just everything that I built so far. And it really did help me like that is a tough place to succeed. You are really put to the test. But I think the biggest takeaway that I got from that role was learning how to develop marketing platforms, you know, building those integrated campaigns, those bigger partnerships that are touching every single department that feel like

You've created something special for each brand, something truly ownable to them, and it made me think bigger.

And that was the biggest thing that it really helped me do and kind of level things up. And that's where I really felt like I had a good understanding of how far digital partnerships could go and the role that it plays within a larger organization. It's not just, let's create better digital content across all the channels, but it also enhances the things that you do in venue. It enhances your overall marketing platform. So it's not just making things right. It's also just making things even bigger across the board.

Sean Callanan (13:39.584) It is very much that, like a lot of people look at the silos, but to get success, you've got to have that real horizontal access across everything, whether it's like you said, what's on the Jumbotron's got to match what's on social, what's got to match is what people walk and see in the arena to potentially also what matches what that partner is doing back in their own stores or on their social. If you don't connect all of those, it does look disjointed and it does look box ticking and it doesn't really connect with fans either.

Alex Kopilow (14:09.895) Absolutely, I I think the misconception is with like an in-venue activation

most social people will be like, oh, if we don't want to cover that on social, no one's ever gonna watch it. And that can be true, but when you get a seat at the table, it very much could be the opposite. I mean, there are things like the Indiana Pacers have this concourse activation where you are tossing a hanger onto a clothing rack and they post that on TikTok and it goes crazy. Or the American Century Championship. It's a celebrity golf tournament just happened a couple of weeks ago and as players are heading from the 17th hole to the 18th hole,

There is a basketball hoop that's branded by Travis Matthew, the apparel brand, and guys like Steph Curry are shooting on that hoop, and that's generating millions of views. So it really can be an enhancer, but you have to know about the things that are going on. So when you work in silos, that's when things go wrong, but when you know what the entire organization is doing, that's when you can come up with some creative work.

Sean Callanan (15:09.614) Absolutely. And you need that, that flexibility and the nimbleness of your teams to be able to take advantage of that to say, yeah, like, people have listening this probably have seen Steph Curry take that shot and make that shot on that basketball ring. But you're only going to post it if he does that not this is prescribed someone's going to walk by and we're going to have a have a shot of someone doing it. And it's not think no, no, we'll, we've got the opportunity for something viral, make sure the team knows about it, we're definitely going to run with it. It's not

You know, it's not an ad, it's just good content.

Alex Kopilow (15:42.643) Right. It's not lucky when that happens. When you're prepared, you're more likely to just get into those scenarios. So you plan for that stuff. I mean, there's always that potential. And quite frankly, Steph Curry also missed a shot in epic fashion, and that's still got millions of views. So when you got celebrities on hand, when you got the right people on hand, you just want to create these opportunities where they can interact with these branded spaces. And that is part of the formula of making them kind of reach those high view counts.

Sean Callanan (16:12.91) So you've obviously got a passion for sponsored content. You're obviously looking to be inspired. And so you started SponCon Sports in 2023. Why did you start it?

Alex Kopilow (16:29.235) Yeah, I mean, I love this space. I think I have the best job in sports. I am a content person who

I don't have to be on 24 seven anymore. You know, I'm not working those game nights and have to react to the instant news. And on the partnership side, I'm not the direct salesperson. I'm not hunting and filling a pipeline. I'm very much supporting, but I just that is not part of what I need to do. So I have a blend of that. And I've really leaned into that in 2023. So in January of that year, I committed to writing on LinkedIn about it three times a week. That was just a personal thing. I just needed to create about it to

share ideas. thought there was a gap in the market. Not a lot of people doing this stuff. I just wanted to share insights and just react to things that caught my attention. so September of that year was laid off at MSG, had some extra time and credit goes out to Neil Horowitz who encouraged me. He you're practically writing a newsletter anyway. Why don't you give it a shot? You're not working and go with it there. so

He kept me accountable in building this up. Who was the target audience? What's it gonna look like? And I built that up launched it a month later and now we're looking on nearly two years just shy of 3,000 subscribers and you know, we deliver it free every single week and It's it's something that I really enjoy doing. It's a lot of work. I think it's like 10 hours a week I put into that thing easily but I really love being able to just

share the insights, rising tide kind of lifts all boats, and show some love for all the creativity there is in this industry.

Sean Callanan (18:07.214) Absolutely. And kudos to you for doing that because it is, there is very few people who are creating content and creating content that provides value. You could say, but Alex, you're looking at that stuff anyway. That's your own research and you're just doing it. But yeah, right. does take effort to do it. So yeah, kudos to that. And again, the commitment to continue doing it.

It should be, he's applauded and I'll applaud it. What are some of the things that have come from that? Like there is a strong case of when you share your opinion on the internet, there's a lot of people that like it. There's sometimes there's people that don't like it. Has there been some good, I guess, repercussions and feedback from you doing it?

Alex Kopilow (19:01.727) The feedback's been really good. I would really encourage anyone. You don't have to write a newsletter, but just sharing your opinions and getting out there in the space, it's certainly helped connect me to a lot of people and just introducing me to people globally. mean, doing something like this show happens because I picked up a presenting sponsor in Zoom and they invited me out to join a panel at Seat and I meet you at Seat and now I'm here. It has gotten me my last…

two jobs, my last two jobs, is been because of this newsletter. So that has really been helpful is how I was discovered by the New York Mets to even get that opportunity. There was a long way to go after that. There was a lot of process after that, but it at least introduced me to the team on that front. But one thing I do do, you know, there's always an opportunity for backlash, but

Look, there's plenty of times where I could say, this sponsored content is awful and please don't do this. I try to keep it positive and stick with the positives. And I certainly offer my opinions of where I think it can be improved or leveled up, but I definitely try to keep a positive spin because there's plenty of bad stuff out there.

And everybody knows about that. But I'm trying to uncover the good because there's just such a misconception when it comes to sponsored content that sponsored content sucks. And the reality is that sponsored content doesn't suck, bad content sucks. And so I'm trying to teach people how to make it so that you can kind of make great sponsored content. Even if there's a brand involved, fans can still love it. And what are the keys to having that success?

Sean Callanan (20:25.89) Yeah.

Sean Callanan (20:40.342) Absolutely. mean, a couple of things from mine, like even just your origin story starting, starting the newsletter is, and I always encourage it, more people should be sharing what they're doing well on LinkedIn. Like, so to start with, you know, if you're doing something well, whether it be organic content, sponsored content, you know, something that went unexpectedly viral, something that you plan to go really catch on, you should be sharing it. And it, and you know, too, unfortunately too many people get really active on LinkedIn.

when they get made redundant or when they change their thing to say, hey, I'm looking like, it should just be a consistent presence. Then your boss is not going, are you doing LinkedIn? It's like, well, this is me talking about all the cool things that we're doing. And then it's only a small step to give kudos to people who are your colleagues, whether they be in the same league or a different league or someone you don't even know to go, wow, like, I really love what SailGP have done around this race. I'm gonna, like we both say.

I say, steal with pride and you do the spawn conspiration, like, how can we take it for ourselves? It is a really great way to, I guess, put out your own personal brand, but also make sure both your, you know, it's a really good tool internally too, that your business, you know, people on your team know what, know what you're doing. It's a, you know, it's an informal way to also report back to your boss.

Alex Kopilow (21:57.065) Yeah, you know, I definitely agree with you there. mean, it's starting and like posting online about this kind of stuff. It's important to do when you don't have to be doing it. It's the same way when you are networking, don't reach out to people when you need something. Reach out before, establish that relationship and then those relationships will help you down the line. So definitely do that. And then, you know, luckily for everybody I've worked for since I've been active and this was even at MSG when I was just writing on LinkedIn, there was no newsletter.

It was encouraged. you know, there have to be smart, like, hey, maybe don't write about our competitors. Hey, let's be careful there. But that's understandable. I think that's extremely fair. And so when I joined the Mets, I was very upfront about what I was doing. Cards were on the table. Everything's above board and they they're super encouraging about it. So I think it's only been a good thing. You have to be smart with like, you know, like, hey, maybe be careful about who I'm talking about in baseball or making sure I'm not backhanded. It's saying anything poor about our

Sean Callanan (22:33.827) Yeah.

Alex Kopilow (22:57.709) but that's really easy to navigate. Like it certainly doesn't limit me in the slightest.

Sean Callanan (23:03.862) And you mentioned there that we met up in real life at SEAT Nashville. I wanted to ask you, what was your overall impression of SEAT this year?

Alex Kopilow (23:13.023) I thought Seat was really great. I've been, and I'm not just blowing smoke because I'm on your show. I've had the privilege to go to a really nice handful of conferences over the last two years. A lot of speakers, a lot of attendees. And I think what Seat does really, really well is really thinking through the itinerary and the planning. It is not over-programmed. Like there is enough time to go to a panel.

Then you get time to network, you get time to recharge the batteries, and then you can go to other panels. I think that's really important because I've been to other conferences where it's just too over-programmed and you are drained by the second half of day one. I think there's that, but as a result, every panel was super purposeful, had very smart people, and I really did learn a lot and take things away. Like I remember there was a panel after mine on the digital social track and…

It was about how the Nashville Predators had tied all their heritage nights to country music and it is something that was authentic to them, their true spin on it. I absolutely loved that. I took it right back to the team when I saw that. So I felt like I learned a lot, but like it was very well done in terms of how it's structured too.

Sean Callanan (24:26.734) Absolutely, I agree. And I think there was tweets made from last year to this year to have that intention. You were on a panel with a couple of sports geek alumni, Patrick Cooper and Dan from Zoom, sort of focusing on game day. was one of the things where like, what are going to be the topics? game day is always a topic. Like it's not a hot topic, but it's always a topic. What are some of your…

I guess key thoughts around maximizing game day both for from fans and revenue if we sort of look back at that panel

Alex Kopilow (25:01.705) Yeah, I think, you know…

maximizing game day, that's the easiest thing that you should be doing when it comes to driving revenue because you're already creating this content and literally every phase of game day can be monetized and can be monetized in a very tasteful way. That is pregame from your game day graphics to your arrivals to your starting lineups to, you know, to pregame warmups. And then you got everything into game day where you got your in-game highlights, final scores, and then everything post game.

right? That's an exercise I like to do when I walk into a team. It starts with game day. It is what is every single little moment we can extract? How do we start posting about it in advance? Because I like to stay away from built if sold, where it's like we're only going to do it if we sell it.

I want to maximize the inventory and get it live as soon as possible. Make sure we're telling those complete stories consistently so we can gather that data and use that data to sell. since you're already doing it, it's low bandwidth. It really helps your content team when you prioritize selling that over your super custom content, which everybody's asking for, because you make the littlest name change to a piece on game day and it feels custom. you've got substitutions in soccer and you call it pub.

subs for Publix. They're iconic. They know Pub subs is something out there. It connects right to the content. That feels like just a shoe in or player arrivals. You can tailor that to so many brands. mean, you can do tunnel vision for a vision brand, roll in and style for a tire brand and so on and so forth. Right. If you can kind of come up with those customizations in advance and tailor it, that's like the easiest thing to activate that feels custom. And so that's the biggest priority that I like to maximize first.

Sean Callanan (26:53.902) It is, you we love saying low hanging fruit, but it really is the low hanging fruit of commercialization. And it is just, you know, and the digital team knows which pieces are the ones that work. And one of the stuff that I love with what you're doing with writing, it's really come with me is making sure you name things. Cause it's really hard to go back to the commercial team and tell them, oh, that photo that we do 10 minutes before that's the one we want to sell.

Alex Kopilow (26:58.507) Mm-hmm.

Sean Callanan (27:22.35) if it doesn't have a name, it's really hard for the commercial team and the sponsorship team to pitch it back. Is that also one of the things you sort of, you know, do an assessment and say, hey, what's that called? it hasn't got a name, we want to start giving it a name.

Alex Kopilow (27:36.381) Yeah, it's two things. One, it makes the connection between the brand and the content. Like, you put a floating logo on there, it's like, why the heck is that brand on that piece of content? Like, not everybody's thinking about what that connection is, and you make it clear, that makes it even better. The other piece is actually avoiding an implied endorsement from a legal side. Like, if you are making sure that a brand is positioned as, you are sponsoring this series of content.

you know, and make that very clear, that's going to help you from a legal perspective as opposed to just slapping a logo on a post with a player. And it might be implied that that brand is endorsing that player. You want to stay away from that. So it helps twofold from both a legal perspective, but also really helping nail down the connection to the fans of why that brand is participating in these moments.

Sean Callanan (28:25.954) And from your point of view, you're now experienced and got lived experience in working between commercial and content. What are your key factors for a successful deal or a successful partnership?

Alex Kopilow (28:39.187) Yeah, I think a successful kind of formula for any partnership, it all starts at the pitch. And if you're doing it correctly, you got to ask the right questions. What are your goals? Who's your target audience? What's your budget? What does success look like? What have you seen in the market that you really like? What have you done in the past that you didn't like? Answers to those questions will guide what you should prepare for your partners and

All those answers to those questions, they better show up in your recaps too. That's how you tell the story over the course of a season. Make sure you resurface those answers. Make sure you document it because when a partner says, like we really.

don't have a big enough presence and it's like well you want it to prioritize content that might have been more fun that we can't do as frequently but it has better results even though it's less frequent so you just kind of reframe it of are we changing priorities are we not so it's really asking those right questions and then also

it is building the trust internally for the partnerships and content teams to work together. So something that I like to do when I build out all the inventory that's available to the partnerships team, I make it very easy with either an Excel spreadsheet or a menu book and PowerPoint, whatever path you decide. The rule is, is even though the content team, which I get them to approve everything in advance.

Even though everything is pre-approved, when it goes in front of a partner officially, it needs to go back in front of the content team to re-approve it. And the reason is, is because algorithms change.

Alex Kopilow (30:13.895) Maybe you oversold in a certain window of game day. Let's say you sell a ton of pregame content and another pregame content that's approved is going in front of a partner. It's like, yeah, that's approved, but we got too much going on. We need to pivot to something else. So that builds trust of saying like, it's not a no backsies thing where it's like, you already proved it. It brings trust. It's like, we're going to get another set of eyes on it. We're letting you say it's approved. You can bring it up and you do that. So I think that's an important formula too.

Sean Callanan (30:43.83) Absolutely. And then as you build that trust, it does give you that flexibility for and this is the bit that I think is the six. Once the digital team starts knowing how things are working, they go, we've got something that's not on the plan that will be, you know, that will be successful. And they, they then start sending that back to you to say, Hey, Alex, this will really work well with our banking partner or our auto partner. It's not in our scale. You can either, you know, do it as a nice, you know, an add on or

or an uplift for them or potentially an upsell completely? Do you sort of get that once the light bulb moment happens for the digital teams?

Alex Kopilow (31:22.941) Yeah, yeah, they definitely start bringing you ideas when you start to build that trust. I think the other piece is getting content teams more involved, being way more transparent, helping them understand like, where's your current, you know, digital revenue number at? Where is it that you want to go celebrating with them when you sell things through closing the loop when you have a deal that might have went cold and continuing to give those updates of where things stand like

make them a part of the process, but also helping them understand that the revenue that we build, so like all the great content you create builds up in audience. And because of that audience, brands are interested and brands bring in the money. And with that money, you can…

you know, buy new equipment, you can outsource some things to some freelancers, you can do bigger and better things, which attracts more audience, which helps you hit your KPIs, which just continues to be a flywheel. So you have to explain them to that too, like even if content teams want to be selfish, like be as selfish as you want. If you want a promotion, if you want to raise, and if you want more help, doing it by working well with your partnership team is the way you're going to get it.

Sean Callanan (32:37.228) Absolutely. And I think that initial piece of get that foundation right, commercialize what you're doing now. But then if you've got that cool stuff, you know, that cool stuff budget that you're like, we would love to do this, we don't have the budget for it, you know, yourself, the partnership team are the ones that actually can bring in that cash, whether it's, we want to do this dedicated podcast series or this video series, or, you know, this particular, you know, TikTok series, whatever it is that it's like, requires more time, resources and budget.

whether it's internal or external, that's the kind of thing to say, work with us, we can help you pay for it. And so that's the bit where you start getting into the really cool stuff.

Alex Kopilow (33:17.075) Yeah, it does. And you actually just like sparked another thing and I can't believe I forgot in terms of what is it that you need to do to have success. think the biggest, one of the biggest differences between your traditional signage, your traditional sponsorship assets and digital is all the nuances that go within it. And one thing I encourage any team that I work with is to have every single detail mapped out upfront. And it's a lot of work upfront, but every idea that you're pitching should have.

high level description, what is the cadence? So how many times is this being posted? What channels is it going on? And what does the brand integration look like? It needs all those details. You cannot say TBD social content to be decided anything. The second that you sell something through that is TBD gives all the power to the brand because now they get a say in a much heavier say than you want. And that's when things go awry like.

you need to call the shots. And that doesn't mean your brand can't co-create something with you, but you need to put that in writing in the beginning so that it is actually the vision that's executed that you wanted.

Sean Callanan (34:25.486) And that document, like, you know, we use a one page pitch document that has those key facts that is a shared document and shared language between digital and commercial. So they go, this is what that series is going to be. It's going to be on our YouTube. It's going to be cut down for TikTok. It's going to be cut down for reels. by the way, we're also going to have some assets that are going to be given to the customer that they can use on their socials and the IPs all signed off.

Once all that's listed and you say, boy, here's the cost. That's gonna, our videographer is gonna need a day a week for six weeks to be able to do that. Like all of that visibility there, then you don't get that gotcha. Like you said, been sold. Can you guys do it? And, hang on, we're in production with something else. So it's like getting those production workflows working. But yeah, that common language is so important. And I think we are definitely moving away from, you know, social digital 2BD.

You know, and even the fact that you said, go do it all upfront. A lot of the stuff we're doing with clients is actually having up fronts like the TV networks do. Like here's all the different series that we're going to do. Which one excites you? Take your pick because, this one's going to go really quickly. And it definitely helps the sales process. If you say, hey, we're doing our version of this or that kind of thing, does help your team from a sales point of view, knowing what you actually can sell.

Alex Kopilow (35:47.241) Yeah, it helps. It helps what you can sell enormous help, but it also makes activation easier once the deal gets sold and the bigger reward makes you more likely to renew the deal. You know, you know, you can go and sell all the partnerships you want, but you want to renew a lot of them. And so when you make that process smooth and the brands feel good about joining, you know, being part of the family and all that process and activating is great. You see the results and it aligns with all your goals like

You want the renewal. The renewal is such a big piece, so that's why in the past when all these tough sponsorship deals go through, your partner's just super frustrated. You're selling bad content that it's like, may have been what they asked for, but it was never gonna work, and that leads to just a tougher path to a renewal, which is what nobody wants.

Sean Callanan (36:36.568) Before we wrap up, I wanted to talk about one content strand that has jumped from league to league, and that is the schedule release. In the NFL, it is like they're super-bile for the digital teams, and we've seen multiple leagues take their spin and take their inspiration of it. What's your take on, I guess, the schedule release, both from a content point of view, but then also bringing commercial partners into it?

Alex Kopilow (37:03.179) You know, I think it's a great opportunity for commercial partners, but you know, it's tough. Like the NFL certainly has its advantages. The fact that you don't play every team every year, there's a limited number of games, but at the same time, you know, while that is a hurdle and they certainly have the advantage of like when schedule release happens, it happens in the off season. know, schedule release is very little about the actual schedule and just making entertaining content. So that's how I'd kind of fight that back of

It is your opportunity to have fun, be creative, to let your social and content teams just like take a chance and try to break through. And it's really an earned media play. But I think where a lot of teams go wrong is they don't plan it enough in advance. I mean, you saw, I mean, the Los Angeles Chargers is who comes to mind every single year.

They're planning that thing months and months in advance. it's not just something like, okay, it's finally the off season. What do we want to do for schedule release? So that really pays huge dividends. And then from a commercialization point, like one, your ticketing partner should certainly be top of mind. It's why you see Ticketmaster and SeatGeek.

typically as the leading sponsor in all of these windows across every league because ultimately you are using it as a ticket driver. So that is a you know brands you certainly want to target and there's there's certainly other categories but ticketing should be at the top. And then even if hey we didn't go huge on our hero video there's still plenty of assets that you could add into that day.

You can add in a predict the schedule sweepstakes to help with lead generation. You can add the schedule graphics that you have with that. They can do a takeover of your schedule page throughout the year and have integrations into that. Your email series where you're always updating like, here's a look ahead at the games that we have. So make it not just a moment, make it a platform that you can take year round. So I think there's certainly a ton of opportunities in that front. And then I think the best teams.

Alex Kopilow (39:04.809) not just are creating something entertaining in that moment, but they're finding how to pull those moments through to the regular season, so…

The Chicago Bulls had done this with their Pokemon schedule release. They started to use like excerpts from their schedule release into some social content, previewing the matchups that were mentioned in schedule release. So I really liked that when the Tennessee Titans went famous for their, their man on the street interview on, on Broadway with that schedule release, they,

they gave the Atlanta Falcons like a really wacky name. It's, it's, uh, I'm forgetting it right now, but the Falcons leaned into that name and recreated it for like a fan fest with Napa Auto Parts the week they the Tennessee Titans.

So how can you find moments from schedule release you can take into the regular season, like how the Seattle Seahawks had these Bud-A-Lite wind glasses that they would wear after every win that season the year after they did it. it's really, how do you take it from a moment to a year long platform is where you can really kind of have some big success and turn it into a much bigger opportunity.

Sean Callanan (40:12.364) Yeah, and I think the other thing is, is because like they do come out and there is, you know, the internet analyzes them and ranks them and all those kinds of things. But it's like, well, what's the intent of it? And for the most part, it should be, you know, I want to engage my fans. It's great if there's the internet clapping of that's an amazing video, but like, I'm not, you know, if I'm not going to a Chargers game, what's the end effect? Like you said, it's an earned media. It's an earned media thing. sometimes you don't know what the behind the scenes.

Alex Kopilow (40:36.352) Right.

Sean Callanan (40:40.822) And the intentions are like there could be a whole bunch of in jokes that only, you know, only Bill's fans get and they love it. So it deepens their ties. And then, like you said, the other piece of what's the broader play, you know, the deep, you know, the deep watch time, then you're following it up with, but, know, digital marketing and retargeting and, and hitting people up with ticket sales. It's like, it's just a, you know, it's a tool. It obviously gets a lot of exposure and a lot of assessment, but

you know, it starts with, know, what will our fans want and love? They're the ones that love watch it all the way through. But yeah, it's always a, it's one that you know, and it has been manufactured in other sports because they don't have a schedule release day like the NFL does. It does a great job of making events out of nothing, because it's the NFL and it can do that. So yeah, it's, it's always interesting to watch other other sports do it. And I think when they do it for their fans first, that's where it comes and then

Yeah, I really love the ideas of extending it and bringing it into other parts of the year.

Alex Kopilow (41:45.321) Yeah, I saw something really creative with last week's NHL schedule release. The Nashville Predators actually ran a sweepstakes after the fact to win a pair, I think, of preseason tickets. And what they did was they linked to the video on the landing page so you could go watch the hero video of the schedule release. But they asked trivia questions of what's in the video to enter. So it encouraged you to go watch it, which of course helps performance and retargeting and all that.

Sean Callanan (42:07.18) What about the Easter eggs? Yeah.

Alex Kopilow (42:15.231) But then of course, fans are rewarded with a chance to win some tickets into the preseason. So I thought that was a really creative build as well. But you said something really important. It's fan first. And any kind of sponsored content, any kind of content should always be, how can I match the expectations of the audience when they hit that follow or subscribe button? It doesn't matter if there's a sponsor or not. And if you do that, you're setting yourself up for success, whether there's a brand involved or not.

Sean Callanan (42:41.778) Absolutely. think it was Dwayne Hankins said on this, on this pod, he's now at the trial blazers, that triangle of fans and sponsors and brand, it's got to tick all three, if it doesn't, the triangle falls over. And I think it's, know, it's a, it's a, it's a good method for saying, Hey, will it, you will this work? If you're sort of saying the sponsor loves it, it's, it's, it's fine for the brand, but the fans won't like it. Like that's where you go, it's not going to work. We have to tweak it in some way. Alex, I really appreciate you coming on the podcast. I want to get to the sports geek closing five.

Do you remember the first sports event you ever attended?

Alex Kopilow (43:15.211) who it's it's a tough one of which it is but the earliest memory I have now is actually with the New York Mets. So I was a Mets fan growing up. So this job is a little bit special to me for that reason too. And you know this back when I was young enough I think it was 1999 when I was picking games because it was a fireworks night. That's why I wanted to go. It was a fireworks night. And so we the Mets were playing the Atlanta Braves and

We were losing big, 8-1, and it's two outs in the eighth inning, and the only reason we're there is because there's fireworks after at that point. And so with two outs, down 8-1, the Mets score 10 runs, and they end up winning 11-8.

Sean Callanan (43:50.434) That works.

Alex Kopilow (43:59.627) And so it's still one of the best Mets games of all time. I was there. I got to do it with my dad and then fireworks afterwards. So it was my first memory I remember, but also just a generally iconic game that I won't be able to top that much.

Sean Callanan (44:16.35) Absolutely, absolutely. You would have been a fair few sports events in your time. Do you have a favorite food or a go-to food at a sports event?

Alex Kopilow (44:25.887) Yeah, I feel like this is such a bougie answer, but my go-to has been like sushi and poke bowls. And maybe that's, I'm in the right market because Madison Square Garden has that and now city feel the sushi as well. But that is kind of my go-to at a sporting event.

Sean Callanan (44:43.02) It does show how far stadium food and concession food has come. You know, from the humble meat pie or the hot dog to, yeah, having sushi at a sports event. What's the foot? Yeah, go for it.

Alex Kopilow (44:53.907) I will say when I was in Chicago, getting a Chicago hot dog, that might be the goat. mean, it's the best place to get it, but that'll really change your life too.

Sean Callanan (45:07.904) Absolutely. What's the first app you opened in the morning?

Alex Kopilow (45:13.931) it's LinkedIn these days. LinkedIn, which is, look how far they've come, which is wild. I think, you know, I was very much a part of that group on marketing Twitter, you know, pre and early days of COVID. I think that really expanded my ability to network and that's where I spent a lot of my time. But LinkedIn's the first one and right behind it is TikTok. So those are the two places I'm opening right away.

Sean Callanan (45:40.854) Absolutely. Is there someone that you follow that gives you SponCon inspiration or otherwise that the podcast listeners should follow and why?

Alex Kopilow (45:52.487) Yeah, yeah, I think with sponsored content, I'll tell Liverpool as a team. I think they're doing the best in the business. They're super innovative. They've made recycling content with SC Johnson, highly entertaining, but also they have a pretty high hit rate. They are

incredible on YouTube, one of the few teams that are doing YouTube right, whether it's their subscription platform or their localization across languages and just the great content that they're building. So I think that they're really good. then, you know, I love the people that I follow in sports, but I also encourage people to go outside of sports to get inspiration as well and just like learn about digital strategy. So I think Lia Habermans, you know, ICYMI, newsletter is incredible.

and Rachel Karton's Link In Bio newsletter are just two mainstays for me that get me thinking outside of sports and overall digital strategy that I constantly find myself reading and being intrigued by.

Sean Callanan (46:49.998) Yeah, I mean, I think there is a tendency in sports to be always looking over, you know, at what your cross town rival is doing or a cross league rival is doing in market or in other markets. But, you you can learn just as much from, you know, the world of entertainment, you know, festivals, what's happening in music. I mean, we've just seen the, you know, we're recording this, you know, seven days since the Coldplay, you know, big screen, no longer a kiss cam that's now being redone.

So like always looking for inspiration in other places.

Alex Kopilow (47:23.025) Absolutely, and you mentioned that and a brand I noticed out in the Philadelphia Phillies game was Evolve right on the jumbotron for that. So they were really benefiting from that kind of a moment.

Sean Callanan (47:30.894) No, exactly. mean, this this weekend at the at the footy, they did have the kiss cam and the fans were doing it. And at another the next day in the stadium, it was just called Coldplay cam. And everyone knew like and to jump on that kind of thing to go. You know, they're the kind of things that one brands feel, you know, feel like a part of this cultural trend and those kind of things. If your events team could do it and it's like, hey, can our social team be reshare that we saw? Yeah, we saw the Phillies do it with their mascots. It's something that you can catch on to.

The last question I ask is a tough one, because I ask you for one social media platform that's your MVP. What is it for you? Maybe, actually, I'm going to ask you, what is it for you? And then what is it for sponsored content?

Alex Kopilow (48:15.467) I'm glad you position it that way. I can stick to one on both questions. YouTube for me, I'm just super intrigued by…

I hit every single generation of fans and there's such an opportunity with short form and long form and even packaging it up and being able to sell your pre-roll mid-roll and give brands 100 % share voice around content they might not be able to get great integration into. But I find that the best inspiration on that platform comes from the creator world. And if you can kind of take those frameworks that work for them and put your your team's version on it, that can be highly successful in the Philadelphia Eagles actually do

really great job of that. So YouTube is my MVP personally and in the sponsored content world it is still Instagram. Instagram is still the GOAT. It's where everybody is. The advent of the collab.

You know, posts is huge and enormous and being able to extend audiences and doing that. The fact that social media these days is reach is not determined by follower count, especially on something like reels where you can get reach without having those followers. I think that's enormous. Then of course, everything from stories to carousels to reels and all the options that you have. I consider it the courtside seats of content. It should be valued that way. So I don't encourage teams to just sell into

everybody wants Instagram but not everybody can afford it the same way not everybody can afford court-sized seats so you got to be careful what you're selling on there but it is still the priority platform

Sean Callanan (49:48.43) Absolutely. And you know, it's like enough to speak to Andrew Yaffe, who's the CEO of Dude Perfect as a a a operator that is absolutely killing it in the YouTube space. There's definitely definitely upside there for the sports as they navigate the sports rights and what they can put up there and those kind of things. But that is definitely starting to start to loosen. Alex, I really appreciate you taking the time I always ask people who listen to podcasts to reach out and say thanks. What is the best way for them to

Reach out to you and also subscribe to SponCon Sports.

Alex Kopilow (50:20.147) Yeah, you find me on LinkedIn or Twitter. It's just my name, Alex Kapelow, so easy to find it there. And the newsletter, SponCon Sports, if you Google it, it'll be the first thing that comes up, but otherwise it's sponconsports.beehive.com. Highly encourage it. You're getting over 10 free ideas every single week, so you're not getting charged a penny for it. You might as well take it.

Sean Callanan (50:40.244) Absolutely. We will put links in the show notes. Like I said, great to catch up with you in Nashville at SEAT and thank you for coming on the podcast.

Alex Kopilow (50:48.341) Thanks for having me, Sean.