USGA’s Ticketing Evolution: Balancing tradition with modern fan demands – Dan McBride, USGA

This transcript has been transcribed by Riverside.fm, no edits (please excuse any errors)

Sean Callanan (00:01.855)
Very happy to welcome Dan McBride. He's the Senior Director of Championship Ticketing and Experiences at the United States Golf Association, known as the USGA. Dan, welcome to the podcast.

Dan McBride (00:13.17)
Thanks for having me. Looking forward to chatting.

Sean Callanan (00:15.761)
Not a problem at all, not a problem at all. I always start asking people how they got their start in sports. What about yourself? What was your first foray into the world of sports business?

Dan McBride (00:24.664)
Yeah, great question. I took a little bit of a circuitous path to get into the sports industry. I grew up playing soccer competitively and then upon going to university realized there was zero chance that I had the ability to actually play professionally. So how could I then marry my love of sports into like an actual career path?

Sean Callanan (00:46.632)
You're right, like a lot of the listeners and a lot of my guests, like we're all failed athletes that have gone into the world of sports business.

Dan McBride (00:54.272)
Yeah, so I got a degree in finance and tried to parlay that into somehow getting into the industry. And after doing a couple years of regular corporate world work, I ended up getting an opportunity down in New Orleans, Louisiana with the then New Orleans Hornets basketball team in the NBA. Entry level position, just get in, learn, prove yourself and kind of go from there. So I started as a business operations coordinator.

And that was some about 16 and a half years ago. So it's been a long fun journey since then. But yeah, was entry level, just grind it out and hit the ground running and prove that you can try to make it.

Sean Callanan (01:38.707)
It wasn't a case of, you you had a numbers and a finance background. And so you'd, you'd lived in the world of spreadsheets and data and those kinds of things. Was that something that you, I guess, lent into and sort of looked at the roles like you're in business operations and in ticketing, and then you sort of found your way into the analytics space at the, at the Pelicans. Is that sort of something that you sort of doubled down or lent into your strengths?

Dan McBride (02:02.198)
Yeah, absolutely. So when I started, I was working with the ticket operations department and that was before analytics and CRM was even a known entity in the sports industry. So I literally sat in the office with the ticket operations department and learned the reporting side from the ticketing platform. And then from there kind of layered on the additional numbers and skillset of working through Excel with financial modeling and all that fun stuff.

And then it kind of like grew into the strategy and analytics type role. But it definitely started out with like the ticket operations team. I worked in the box office on game nights, getting my hands dirty and being the like front of front of house staff dealing with customers. Some, some fun, some, some not so happy when they, when their tickets didn't show up, but yeah, that was, that was kind of my foray into it.

Sean Callanan (02:52.287)
I guess, again, like you said, an exciting time because a lot of sports teams were moving from, hey, paper tickets are getting sold, you walk up to Will Call to what does the data look like? We need the data of our fans, that analytics piece. So you're at the Pelicans and then you moved across in a similar role around that analytics space with the New Jersey Devils.

Dan McBride (03:13.802)
Yeah, that's correct. So the gentleman who had been the president of the New Orleans Hornets became the president of the New Jersey Devils and then recruited myself and a couple other people to come up to New Jersey to work in the NHL for the Devils and Prudential Center. And then for that opportunity, I ended up overseeing strategy and analytics for the entire organization from that perspective, focusing

heavily on ticket pricing, ticket package development, and senior level and league level reporting.

Sean Callanan (03:47.307)
And again, like as that sophistication and data and analysis came through the stuff that you're talking about of looking at the product, changing the product, the product pricing strategy that time. And we're talking, you know, 2013, 2017 range was a, was a real thing to say, Hey, what levels can we pull to bring more people in or to drive revenue? What's the right price? Was that some of the stuff that you were doing at New Jersey and like where a lot of teams were looking at that as a, as a lever to pull.

Dan McBride (04:17.81)
Yeah, absolutely. So when I was in New Jersey, we were one of the first organizations that actually did a consolidated broker arrangement where we identified who the brokers were and then tried to have a consistent strategy and just make it that much more impactful for the organization overall. And then additionally, we introduced a couple of other quote unquote, like innovative opportunities, knowing that

Season ticket packages are, it's a lot of games, like 41 regular season home games, and then two or three preseason games. Like it's a lot for a fan. So we introduced, we were the first ones in the NHL to do a flex membership model where based on your commitment and spend, you had access to premier pricing across all of the different tiered games and tiered access into which seats you could get.

Dan McBride (05:14.72)
So obviously the more you spend, the better their discounted rate over the course of time, as well as your seat availability.

Sean Callanan (05:23.539)
Yeah, I mean, that was this it's a really interesting space. And you can't do that. Like those decisions were being made blind previous to that to go, we're changing our pricing, or we're putting out a new product without having that data. But once you had the data to go, we do know, you know, these these fans, this segment of fans will spend more money or do what a better experience but don't have access to it. You know, I think that's been where it's been exciting.

And, you know, it continues to develop from the New Jersey Devils, you went to city football group, which, you know, going from two US teams to city city football group, which is obviously in New York, but then also had other, you know, Manchester city. What was it like working with the city football group?

Dan McBride (06:09.942)
Yeah, so that was a lot of fun. That was a good part of my career where I was based in Manhattan in the offices with New York City FC of MLS. when I was, like City Football Group has continued to grow and expand. The time while I was there, there was a controlling operational interest in four of the clubs. And those were the clubs that I dealt with. I was like an internal consultant from a ticketing strategy perspective. So about half of my time was spent focusing on New York City FC

Because that was a huge opportunity because obviously New York City's massive market, trying to penetrate that with everything else going on around the city, not only just from a sporting perspective, but also just from live entertainment, concerts, whatever. There was a huge opportunity there. So that was about half of my time. Then I was traveling and working with all the other clubs internationally. So I spent about 25 % of my time with Manchester City, primarily focusing on their premium inventory from a single game single match perspective and helping with some pricing and revenue optimization.

And then the remaining 25 % of my time was split between two of the smaller clubs, like smaller quote unquote by name stature, but still super successful. One being in La Liga, Girona FC, who I'm sure you guys have seen is now playing in the Champions League after a super successful campaign last year, which is great to see. And then Melbourne City FC and in the A league down in your neck of the woods.

Sean Callanan (07:33.993)
Yeah, absolutely. And so what's some of the differences like you've been able to go from different sports in different markets, but then getting that international feel of, you know, the US ticketing and hospitality and premium space compared to the, you know, to the UK and even Australia, like some of the that are culturally different or the way that it's the way that it's done was there a little bit of both adjustment for you to learn that new market, but then also realize, this actually works in New York, you know, this will work in the UK or this will work in Melbourne.

Dan McBride (08:05.238)
Yeah, exactly right. So while I was there, I essentially had a monthly call with senior leadership from all of the clubs, as well as CFG umbrella organization, where we would talk through essentially what's happening in each of the different markets. there like sharing opportunities of best practices? Can we take something that's working in New York City and somehow apply it in Melbourne?

But also being very cognizant of the cultural differences. part of, part of what the role was, getting to know the markets and the differences culturally, because it's not a cookie cutter approach. Like you can't take something in New York and just drop it into Manchester and expect it to work and vice versa across all the clubs. So it's like, okay, how can we take this opportunity that we found success somewhere, twist it, spin it, slice it, rework it so that it fits within the right cultural perspective and in that local market and kind of run with it.

Dan McBride (08:59.102)
There, and there, would say there were actually a couple of things that, that we did launch that were kind of interesting. one of them being they was an inside sales team. it's obviously super popular in, traditional sports here in North America. had been introduced right as I was getting on the ground running with Manchester. And over the course of time, while I was there, we actually were able to essentially prove the case.

Sean Callanan (09:13.92)
Yeah.

Dan McBride (09:25.654)
and show the value that it could bring and ended up hiring two sales reps in Girona and one sales rep in Melbourne. So it was one of those things where it's just like, okay, here's an opportunity. Let's do the case study. Let's make sure that we're proving that there's value to be added here because there's obviously risk when you're adding headcount from a capital perspective. So we have to make sure we can justify that there is going to be return on the investment. And thankfully, we were able to prove that and it was successful.

The one other, one other thing that I would say that was a kind of a cool initiative that I enjoyed, was, black Friday deals, right? That's super popular in the U S and in North America. And it's, it started getting traction globally. So we did a bunch of research and was just like, we hadn't been participating in black Friday offers with some of the other clubs. So I was just like, guys, like we're talking like billions of dollars being spent on these days globally now, like.

Sean Callanan (10:20.991)
Yeah.

Dan McBride (10:21.314)
We need to do something. So we kind of went back and forth each of the individual clubs, like did a tailored offer for each one, put it out in market. some were more successful than others, but one of the cool things was, and I would say this specifically about Melbourne is while the black Friday offer was not super successful from a revenue generation perspective, it actually was a great learning opportunity because boxing day down there is super popular. So we took the learnings from that and applied it for a Boxing Day offer and they killed it.

Sean Callanan (10:53.577)
Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. I mean, it must've been really, the opportunities about a test in different markets because, know, with ticketing, you know, if you apply a change, it be a small one. might be a price one. It might be a product one. There's always the fan feedback and how it gets rolled out and how it gets communicated, how it gets marketed and how, what the reaction is and to be, you know, and normally if you're with one team, you've got one or two of these opportunities.

Whereas when you know, if you've got the opportunity of working with multiple teams in multiple markets, you can sort of take those learnings and lessons and apply them. So it must have been advantageous to be able to do that.

Dan McBride (11:33.932)
Yeah, absolutely. was a very, very cool opportunity to test and trial things and having the freedom and ability to do that. Because that's the one thing I will say about the organization was they were very forward facing on pushing the envelope and trying to test to see if things can work and will make a difference.

Sean Callanan (11:55.413)
So one more gig that I want to talk about before we get into your work currently, USGA was working, taking a strategy around activation Blizzard when they were looking to have eSports events in venues and move to that in real life. was a, you know, the trajectory of eSports was in up and going to the right and everyone was trying to do different things. It hit some difficulties, but what was your experience like trying to bring the sports experience into the world of esports?

Dan McBride (12:22.407)
Yeah, so that was a really fascinating opportunity as well. So I will tell you right now, I am not a gamer by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm fascinated by the level of passion that gamers have in following their like their respective game as well as players on YouTube channels and all that stuff, right? So…

Dan McBride (12:50.828)
What I was doing with Activision Blizzard Esports, I was helping them with the launch of the Call of Duty League and they already had launched the Overwatch League. So I was essentially once again, like the internal consultant from a league level on ticketing strategy on like essentially pricing out and scaling a building. How many different price points do you have? Where do you put like a club seat? Like knowing where like camera angles are for your shots. So knowing if…

You want those seats filled. So you want to make sure that it's the right people in those specific locations and then building in the right price breaks and setting your, your right, like revenue targets. Cause that was one of the things that they brought me in for is cause most of those organizations were relatively flat, didn't have a ton of, of bandwidth from a human capital perspective. And most of the people that were already in the organization didn't have a background in ticketing. So.

I was kind of like from that perspective, very just working as a liaison and consultant with the individual clubs, but also helping the league because they own and operate the tent pole events. So like the championship events, the Activision Blizzard was the one operating that. So I helped build out the pricing strategy and the go -to -market strategy from an inventory management and pricing perspective to try to obviously maximize the revenue.

Sean Callanan (14:14.185)
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, at the same time, I owned an esports team in the League of Legends space and the same like yourself, not a gamer, but try to bring, I guess, that sports experience without the data of, this is how people have previously come to events because they weren't going to events. the bit that I found, I guess, difficult in the spaces, they hadn't had that history and that knowledge of this is how you market an event and this is how you communicate to fans to come to events.

So it made it really hard to get them to an event when they had previously been not like a traditional sports fan, they'd consume their sport for free on Twitch or on YouTube. And so that transactional nature with a league other than buying the game and playing the game wasn't quite there. And then obviously things like COVID hit and all the things went back online and it hasn't quite, it sort of had a bit of a reset moment.
I'm not too sure on YouTube, so that trades actual nature of

Sean Callanan (15:12.523)
But I was interested in talking to people like myself and you that come from sports and tried to apply sports business practice to eSports when it was still relatively relatively new.

Dan McBride (15:25.745)
Yeah, and in one of the things that that I always said was we have to understand and know that that it's not traditional sports They're they're looking at it from a traditional sports perspective but the biggest thing is like you have to be like flexible and nimble because like people will will flip very quickly particularly in the digital age where we are right now, so

It's like making sure that you know your market and that you're activating in the channels that are going to reach who your target audiences are and make sure that you're tracking all of that because like it's going to change rapidly.

Sean Callanan (16:00.681)
Yeah, and the eSports base was still relatively new from an eSports point of view on what those channels are and how you would market on those channels. places like Twitch didn't, there wasn't a lot of marketing of channels, whereas we do see that on the traditional social channel. it did come with its issues. You're now at the USGA. Tell us a little bit about the USGA and what your role is there now.

Dan McBride (16:27.778)
Yeah, no, so the appreciate that. So United States Golf Association, my role, I've now been here for about a little over three and a half years. And my role and function are from a ticketing perspective, I kind of build out and manage all of our ticket pricing and packaging, product development and work hand in hand with our marketing team for our go to market strategy and how we're rolling out our phase ticket distribution across.

all of our ticketed championships. And with the USGA, we operate 15 championships every single year, of which we only commercialize via ticketing five, sometimes six, depending upon the year. So I'm working with multiple teams in multiple markets every single year, because that's one of the very cool things about the role, because I get to go work and learn about a new market in the US.

Dan McBride (17:25.142)
At least five different times every single year. So everything is constantly learning, growing, testing. It's a lot of fun and it's a really good group of people.

Sean Callanan (17:27.082)
Yeah.

Sean Callanan (17:32.971)
So I've spoken to people in the golf landscape and also in that tournament landscape. It's very different from the traditional sports of, like you said before, 41 home games to sell out of NBA and NHL, that kind of thing, or less for some sports. Is it a different way from a marketing point of view? Because it is really hyper local, but then you've also got that tourism element of you want people to be flying in for the tournament. Is there some nuances that are particular to what you do at USGA?

Dan McBride (18:07.094)
Yeah, absolutely. like you're spot on where it, because we change locations every single year, you can't build like baseline historical data and just like rinse and repeat just doesn't work, just won't work. So we have a very like flexible approach in how we do analysis. So like we do internal analysis. We do, we work with outside vendors for market research and feasibility studies so that we can get a proper scope and scale of the size of the market.

Dan McBride (18:36.974)
That we're going into so we can properly set expectations from a ticket sales perspective. So it's very much a fluid and constantly evolving analysis and change and update. And then we go to market strategy, build out how we're going to do it. And we build out years in advance. Some of our championships have already been announced up to like 2050. think there's one of the US Open's has already been announced. So we're like from a host site.

Sean Callanan (19:01.26)
wow.

Dan McBride (19:05.902)
Like we're very far out in that. then we get hyper focused on a couple of years, up to five years out is where we start like getting into the weeds, but super hyper focused on like two year increments and then out to about five, knowing that we need to be flexible because this is going to be six months from now, it's probably going to be different than it is 16 months from now. So kind of like getting ahead in learning as much as we can, but then always like continuing to maintain all of that growth and learning from a data capture perspective that can then enhance and optimize how we're going to market.

Sean Callanan (19:45.995)
Yeah, that was what I was going to ask. There's similarities to your work at C football group in that you had multiple teams, multiple venues. Do you sort of have a playbook that says, we're going into a new market. And it's two years, three years, 15 years in some instances and start saying, what does that data capture piece? What does our, you know, visibility and brand awareness piece, which might be more the marketing team, but you're like, Hey guys, I just need a little bit of that data. You know, how are we getting some of that data?

Sean Callanan (20:15.509)
And it's not like you can do a pre registration and start saying, what does that mean?for tickets in five years, like, do you have a playbook that sort of you sort of dropping in market by market as they are either, you know, coming down the, you know, in the pipeline for the future?

Dan McBride (20:26.38)
Yeah, so we do have a base level playbook that we kind of from a strategy and a timing perspective. And that's obviously based off of historical. But knowing where we are, we tend to be flexible on what we go with when we go with it, depending upon the nuance associated with each individual market. But yeah, we have a baseline structure that we just like, OK, here's the framework, right?

We know we need to do this, this, this, and this. How can we apply it into each of these specific markets knowing that like, okay, the women's open next year in 2025 is at Aaron Hills. Aaron Hills closes down for the season because it gets really cold outside of Milwaukee sooner than it does. Like you can golf year round in Florida. You can't really do that in Wisconsin.

So we had to tailor our strategy from a ticket launch perspective.knowing that the club was going to be closed for three, four months, maybe five months throughout the course of the winter. So there's not going to be top of mind recognition because people aren't going to be out there playing. So like, how can we make sure that we build our marketing campaigns to not get totally lost in the shuffle, but make sure we're also maximizing our spend during like the trough time in the cycle when there's going to be little

Dan McBride (21:54.37)
When we expect there to be less sales and make sure that we're maximizing our spend on that so that we're getting the greatest return that we can and selling the most tickets and meeting our fans where they want to be met, when they want to be spoken with and provide them with an offer that will resonate with them that they will want to actually purchase and then come with that.

Sean Callanan (22:13.897)
Yep. And in your role, says ticketing and experiences is the experiences side, the hospitality and the premium side of the business that you're sort of looking at selling that piece out.

Dan McBride (22:25.592)
So it's more involved with just the fan experience and working with a marketing team and the on -site experience. So we do have premium ticket products. We also do have a separate corporate hospitality program that is managed by somebody else. But we work hand -in -hand on a lot of stuff. And there's a lot of crossover. And that's one of the things that's kind of happening within the industry. From a trend perspective, you're seeing a lot more of like,

People still want super high end experiences and they're willing to pay for it, but they want them in smaller increments. Like you're starting to see that trend of like small high end groups as opposed to like your big 200 or a hundred person. Tense enough, don't get me wrong. Like there are still some of those out there, but you're seeing a lot more super, super smaller high end experiences and how do we like work together to make sure that we're maximizing the opportunity and providing those right products.

Selling them at the right price point that will resonate and drive revenue for the organization and provide the right fan experience because the name of the game is to create memories and to get people to want to come back to another event. One of the coolest things that I've might from my experience thus far is getting to see like multiple generations of a family experience one of our championships. like you can see like

I'll just use like Father's Day is Championship Sunday for the US Open. So like you can see multiple generations, like grandfather, father, and then grandson, like all they're making memories. And like that is like one of the things that resonates that like I really enjoy about the job. Like that hits the feel spot and gives me joy in what we do.

Sean Callanan (24:09.311)
And is that like, do you take that, is that working hand in hand with marketing in and how the event is built to then tie that back to the ticket to say, Hey, I'm building this ticket for this family, for this father, son to be going, but knowing that you're not, it's just not a transaction that, know, selling the ticket is the starting point, but knowing that they're going to have this experience, the way they enter the course, where they, where they, you know, where they stay and how they'll experience it is just is just as vital, even more vital than just saying, here it is, and this is the price, and this is the button you need to click once you see my ad.

Dan McBride (24:45.992)
Absolutely. Yeah. It's all about building the right benefits and experiences that are included in whatever ticket product that you're trying to put together and identifying who your target audience is and what they're truly getting or what they really want in all reality, what they want that experience to be like and how much they're willing to pay for it. And that's where the research and data comes into play. I like constantly doing surveys and research and like that is extremely important.

Because as I said earlier, like it's changing, it's ever changing. And I think it's only going to continue to change even more rapidly than it currently is with the invention, like with the integrations with some like AI and machine learning. Like it's going to continue to evolve at such a rapid pace. Like you have to stay on top of it and be flexible and nimble and adjust your product offerings and the benefits included to what will resonate and will get people to want to purchase and to create that experience that they will remember for a lifetime.

Sean Callanan (25:47.38)
So you touched on machine learning and AI and some of these, I guess, tech opportunities. How do you stay on top of things and then decide what to cherry pick and what to apply? And how do you go about using something like that or rolling something like that out?

Dan McBride (26:07.282)
Yeah, great question. So for me, it's it's staying up to speed with what's going on in the industry attending conferences, whether they're in person or virtual conferences, networking, like understanding and taking some cold calls from people that are just like, hey, I have this, like, I have this opportunity that I think would be of interest, like we're doing we're doing this as it's related to like machine learning, and they think it might be impactful for your business.

So being open and willing to hear people out is very helpful because that's kind one of the things I'd like you can kind of like maybe if you just get one tidbit of information that then is just like the tip of the iceberg that will cascade down into something else that could become something super fruitful.

Sean Callanan (26:51.083)
And then from your, I've been asking a lot of people recently what their current tech stack looks like. What does your tech stack look like from a ticketing and data point of view?

Dan McBride (27:01.74)
Yeah, so we have our ticketing platform. We work with AXS, AXS, and they have essentially a data warehouse and we get to grab that data out and we use Tableau as our data visualization tool, which I think a lot of organizations do at this point in time. And then I also love going back to my base roots and doing some slicing and dicing and formulas in Excel because we can pull data out of the platform system.

And then visualize it and slice it however we need to and take different cuts from there. And then obviously feed everything into our email marketing campaign program and CRM and do all that fun stuff.

Sean Callanan (27:48.937)
Yeah, I think it's the bit that I find exciting in that space. And I saw a startup here in Melbourne that effectively pitched themselves as Canva for data analysis. So effectively, you just take some data and throw it at this LLM and then you can be querying it's giving it questions or saying what graph should I be showing? So it's sort of try to jump past and sort of do things that Tableau does. But also some of the stuff that I was playing around with was just the analysis of longer form text.

Like all of the feedback you're getting or all the entries from a competition, you're able to get sentiment and let it pull out some data. So it's those kinds of things, whether they be add -on tools or they get added to your current tool set, that I think is an exciting development.

Dan McBride (28:36.769)
Yeah, for sure. I think that space within the industry is about to explode. obviously, there's the buzzword, like AI is the buzzword right now. But I do think there are some significant opportunities where it can make a huge impact. And I think some of the impact, might not necessarily be revenue generation, it might actually be cost savings. And it still makes a difference to the bottom line.

Sean Callanan (29:01.257)
Yeah, and it's a cost saving inefficiency, not, we're good. This is going to replace somebody because it's still a tool. Like you still have to, someone has to be at the control of it and to do it. But if it's, if it enables you to do your analysis of a, you know, of a presale quicker to know what adjustments to make, that's where the advantages will be coming.

Dan McBride (29:22.644)
Absolutely. And I think making that as something as simple as being able to speak and ask the question, like I think audio driven like AI is that's that's to me is where like the game changer is really going to be.

Sean Callanan (29:37.119)
Yeah. And I think the other piece in the ticketing space is like how it can potentially do some customer support and, and, know, do that first line and not be as clunky as, know, maybe the early chatbots have been where, where people know that they're talking to a bot, but to get people to the right place sooner and going back to that fan experience piece.

I think there's something there. You talked earlier about innovation and different things you that you have done in the past, whether it be the flex tickets you talked about earlier or going on sale different ways, is there particular ticketing and fan experience trends that have you excited that you're either planning to do, doing, or looking at?

Dan McBride (30:20.876)
Yeah, I think the more we get into the space where we're incorporating the entire door -to -door experience within like, streamline it, because I think as technology has gotten better, particularly from like a TV perspective, it's a lot easier to just stay at home and watch a game as opposed to going on site like, okay, well, I need to go park. What's the weather?

All of this other stuff, like, how long am I going to have to wait in line? I don't know the cost of food, all of this, all of these other things that can be simply streamlined and answered quickly and efficiently and make that door to door experience seamless so that it's a no brainer that like, no, I want to be on site to watch this live. Don't get me wrong. It's cool watching it on TV in the background, but like to actually feel the passion in the excitement, like you need to make sure that that is still.

What is the primary focus and then streamline the level of efficiency for every other potential roadblock or stumbling point along the path that can impair that experience. And for us, a lot of that is ingress, egress. Because some of our championships, you're talking about 35, 40 ,000 people going through a couple of different gates. like,

We want their initial experience on site and the last experience of them seeing us when they're walking out to be a positive one. So making sure that we're super clean and efficient from that perspective is like really, really important to us. And from, from a tech innovation perspective, this year we actually rolled out for the first time some, some facial recognition software for reentry. And that was the first time that we'd that had been done in the, in the golf and in the golf space. So.

We partnered with Wicket, who now has a bunch of clients also with the NFL, but we were their first foray into golf this past year. And it was like seamless transition for reentry from exit to reentry. was amazing. It was great. So we're actually looking at like, it's probably going to expand the program in the coming years, hopefully.

Sean Callanan (32:35.467)
I mean, that's a really good way also to introduce it because I would imagine rolling that out for entry is a big education piece. And especially you're not in the same space as the team where you're always going to Prudential Center or you're always going to the same venue where it's like, you know, and a lot of the teams have integrated their ticketing experience into their app and try to do that from home to stadium.

But for you, because you're in multiple places, you're not, you're not, you're not you don't have that relationship with the fan ongoing. someone, must have a lot of single time or first time or only time that they go is when it's in market.

Dan McBride (33:17.27)
Yeah, it's exactly right. So we have a very finite window within which we can actually have a direct impact with our fans. One of the interesting things we talk about like data analysis is we also, and I think this kind of speaks highly of the experience that our ops team builds out and that our marketing team and onsite team puts together. And not to mention, obviously, the golfers are kind of amazing.

The over -indexing of fans purchasing from the previous year's market is one of the actual funny, not funny, but it's one of the really fascinating data pieces that we have. like, just call it latent loyalty, where we have people that come on site for the first time, just because we're in their market and they want to check it out. And then they're like, we had a great time. And they buy the next year and are willing to travel sometimes across the country, because we went from Los Angeles all the way to Pinehurst, North Carolina between 23 and 24.

So we noticed specifically between 22 and 23 for the U .S. Open. So the 22 U .S. Open was at the country club just outside of Boston and Brookline. Then 23 was at the Los Angeles country club in LA and we significantly over index and ticket buyers from the Boston market for LA than we would have expected. So it was just like kind of kind of interesting and that's something that is going to be unique to us or other events that just constantly move.

Sean Callanan (34:37.748)
Okay.

Dan McBride (34:46.482)
But that was just kind of an interesting piece. So I look at that as like, okay, from like an opt -in experiential perspective, like you did a great job because people want to come back and they're willing to travel now to go to it. But then I'm also thinking about it from a sales perspective being like, okay, we need to make sure that we're also spending marketing in the previous market because they're still willing to buy and the data shows it.

Sean Callanan (35:07.465)
Yep. Yep. So it's just another page in your playbook. It's like, let's read market to them. And then the other pieces of those, like, love those hot and nuggets. And again, you're a data geek and you're, you know, you can then go to your commercial team and say, we've, you know, we've got a real, you know, here's another piece for our, our travel experiences team and showing, you know, how many people bring into market and the revenue generated and brought into market.

So is that something that you then send to your commercial team or, and to circulate that kind of data file, because it's great for you from a ticketing point of view, and you can add it to your marketing, but there are potentially other parts of the department, whether it be the hospitality people might realize the same thing and that kind of stuff. Is that something that you circulate within the business?

Dan McBride (35:57.568)
Yeah, absolutely. So we work hand in hand with the corporate hospitality program as well as with our experiences and travel package provider group. it's definitely something that we like to get in touch with and work hand in hand and like, how can we maximize the opportunity? What are you seeing? What are we seeing? Where are there opportunities that like,

What can we add an experience here in this spot? Like, is there space to do that? Not sure. Well, let's see if we can work something out to figure out a way to make it happen. Yes, 100%. Like those lines of communication are extremely important in terms of trying to optimize revenue. So for sure, definitely.

Sean Callanan (36:41.739)
I want to ask you, you had, you know, experience in finance and started in the ticketing space and sales. And like you said, worked in the front office. What do you, what do you look for in staff that when you're recruiting them for your team to work in the world of ticketing and in analytics, what are the qualities and experience that you're looking for or advice you would give someone that wants to work in that space or abolish it and give some of the most important things to you?

Dan McBride (37:03.853)
Yeah, no, that's a great question. The one thing that I always go back to, if there is one trait or characteristic in a potential teammate, it's intellectual curiosity. The way that I look at things is it's character and intellectual curiosity. You need to have integrity and I can trust you to do whatever you say you're going to do, and I want you to be interested in learning.

I can like, can teach the skill set. That's not that in all reality, it's great to have this skill set, but you can be taught that it's really about the intellectual curiosity and desire to want to learn that I find the is probably been the most, the most important characteristic trait. And that, and that kind of goes hand in hand with, with kind of like the character and having grit in all reality. Cause we do work some crazy hours. Like when we're on site at a championship, it's very early.

Mornings because we have to be on site before any fans are and it's very late nights because we have to get all the fans out before we can leave also So you you have to you have to have that that grit also that you're like that you're willing to put in the hard work and effort but yeah, as I was saying intellectual curiosity and the desire to learn is Is is the number one thing from from my perspective?

Sean Callanan (38:25.567)
Especially in a field like we've said, and you know, if you were to list all the different CRMs and all the different data tools that you've used, it's like, well, you don't all come with a training course there. Here it is. It's sort of like the last one slightly different. And the data comes in a different way. And you've got and you just have to like you said, learn it, understand how to optimize it. So yeah, that that ability to learn is is vital. And then the fact also the bit of I find like knowing what your fan is going through.

So seeing them turn up, being curious as much as the data, but also what's the experience like? are people falling over? You know, that curiosity can also be in, you know, how you test things. we're rolling it out. Did anyone click on the link and see where it went? And does it do that kind of stuff?

Like that's super important in the tech space. But you know, ticketing when you're trying to chase them all the way down the funnel and there's all of these things like cookies being removed and meta taking away a bunch of things you can track like it's getting harder. So you just have to be more thorough.

Dan McBride (39:32.012)
Yeah, exactly right. And you're spot on. It's just like, where can you identify where people are falling off in the funnel? And if you can identify that, identify why they're falling off and fix it. And one of the things that I always go back to is the less clicks required to get to a purchase, the better. I think everybody knows and believes that, but you've got to provide the right amount of information in the least amount of clicks required. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Sean Callanan (39:57.483)
Absolutely, absolutely. And like I discussed recently, sweating that small stuff, like what copy is working, what platform is working, and ask them to have their curiosity, why? Like, why? what demographic? cool, that demographic is really drawn to that creative and we're getting sales. Well, let's push our chips in with that and we'll start tackling something else. But you don't get that if you're just turning it on and waiting for a report, if you don't have that curiosity, you won't get those answers.

Dan McBride (40:28.876)
Yep, absolutely. And that goes hand in hand with the always test. You constantly be testing. Which images are getting better click rates, even if they're not converting? Is it getting better clicks because it's intriguing? Okay, great. So let's focus more on those types of images. So player images tend to do better than static course images. So how do we lean into that appropriately at the right time so that we can actually drive quicker conversions?

Sean Callanan (40:59.947)
Absolutely, Dan, I really do appreciate it. I want to get to the sports geek closing five. Do you remember the first sports event you ever attended?

Dan McBride (41:10.158)
I do. I was extremely fortunate growing up in New Jersey as a child and I was able to attend the 1994 World Cup quarterfinals when Germany lost to Bulgaria, got shocked by Bulgaria in the quarterfinals at Old Giant Stadium. So that was my first real sports experience and I was hooked ever since.

Sean Callanan (41:21.141)
Wow.

Sean Callanan (41:34.827)
Amazing. You would have been a lot of sports events in your time. Do you have a food or a go -to food memory or a go -to food at a sports event?

Dan McBride (41:44.568)
So yeah, so my wife would kill me if I gave a different answer. So I'm gonna make sure I keep my spot in line. Tiger nachos at LSU Stadium, particularly on a Saturday night. It's pretty delicious.

Sean Callanan (42:02.171)
Awesome, awesome work. What's the first app you opened in the morning?

Dan McBride (42:07.854)
That would actually be Wordle. I'm a big fan of Wordle and it kind of like gets kick -starts my brain for the day to get it moving. So yeah, it's Wordle and then probably ESPN after that.

Sean Callanan (42:21.491)
Yep. mean, that gamification and you know, keeping that streak. I do find interesting, you know, now that LinkedIn has embedded games into into LinkedIn to try to bring the engagement back and the same thing. It's like, I keep that streak alive, keep that streak alive. So is there someone that that you follow? might be an author might be someone you follow in social media might be a colleague that the podcast listeners should give a follow to and why

Dan McBride (42:48.398)
I would say Simon Sinek. He is a great thought leader, particularly on leadership and how to manage and grow, both personally and professionally. So I'm a big fan of his.

Sean Callanan (43:03.663)
absolutely, absolutely. And lastly, and you can answer this personally, and then maybe put your ticket sales hat on, what social media platform is your MVP?

Dan McBride (43:16.106)
I probably have to say LinkedIn. Definitely from a business perspective, LinkedIn for sure. Personally, I'm not huge into social media overall, but I use like ex Twitter for real time information. then keeping track with friends would be Facebook, but I would still say like LinkedIn has to be the MVP across the board.

Sean Callanan (43:41.897)
And then from a ticket sales, like a ticket sales point of view and the particular, I guess, ad platforms, is there one that over indexes for what you're doing at USGA?

Dan McBride (43:51.31)
At this current point in time, would say Instagram has been the most successful from a ticket sales perspective, which I guess is not all too surprising, but yeah.

Sean Callanan (44:01.181)
I mean, it's got the most sophisticated ad product, it keeps changing and every time you log in, there's something different. And like we said before, there's more and more restrictions, but you know, X and TikTok have copied it in some form or another. yeah, Meta seems to be the way that works the best, but also depends on the demographic. And if you've got a slightly older demographic, then Meta and Instagram is always going to be winner.

Dan McBride (44:26.434)
Indeed.

Sean Callanan (44:27.915)
So you might have mentioned it, but is there a what is the best way for listeners this podcast who had a listen and might work in ticketing or Across the board's business and want to say thank you. What's the best way for them to connect with you?

Dan McBride (44:41.71)
I would actually say LinkedIn. Just look me up, Dan McBride, United States Golf Association. Happy to connect and chat with people. If you got any cool ideas or things that you guys are working on, I'm happy to take a call and listen and see if there's an opportunity to learn and grow and develop.

Sean Callanan (44:58.335)
Well, thank you very much. We'll put a link to your LinkedIn in the show notes. Dan, thank you very much for coming on the podcast. I really do appreciate it.

Dan McBride (45:05.29)
Awesome, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.