Connecting Netball Communities – Hannah Warren, Netball Australia

This transcript has been transcribed by Riverside.fm, no edits (please excuse any errors)

Sean (00:01.922)
Very happy to welcome Hannah Warren. She's the head of marketing at Netball Australia. Hannah, welcome to the podcast.

Hannah Warren (00:08.305)
Thank you very much. Long time listener, first time appearer. So thanks for having me.

Sean (00:13.878)
Not a problem, I always try to find people's sports biz origin story. What about yourself? How did you find your way into the world of sports?

Hannah Warren (00:22.561)
I found my way into the world of sports probably through the side door, probably not the back door. A very plucky young student went to a uni open day as you do and got some career advice that I was a PR girly. I actually wanted to be a journalist, but the person at the time asked, do you love writing? Like, do you keep a diary? And I was like, no, don't keep a diary as such. And so she very quickly shifted into, well, what are your passions and interests? And I said, well, I love.

I love people, I love stories, I love communicating. And she went, you're PR girl. So I was like, great, I'm a PR girl. So I went away, got the scores that I needed to get into UTS and did a PR and marketing degree and came out of it, bright -eyed and bushy -tailed and got a junior sort of administration, junior role at one of the most prestigious national PR agencies in Australia and spent three years working away only to discover much to my horror that I… absolutely hate PR.

And that's no slight to the industry or any of the incredible professionals that work in that industry. have the utmost respect for all of them, but it's not the gig for me. Luckily, that agency was adjacent to a number of sister and brother agencies that were all focused on sports marketing. It was Dentsu Aegis Network at the time. And one of them was MKTG.

everyone knows very well. I think at the time they were called Team Epic, which is such a hilarious name for an agency. But one was MKTG and the other was an agency called Spark. It no longer exists, but it was one of those great little scrappy agencies that kind of did a bit of everything. And what I noticed most was they seem to work a lot in sports. So they had at the time ANZ, Railbo Direct and Tourism Tasmania as clients.

And they managed respectively the principal partnership of the ANZO Championship, which is the trans -Tasman netball league at the time. Rabo Direct were front of currency for the Rebels and Torres and Tassie, obviously, for the Hawks. And I got in the door and just my mind was completely blown because I grew up as a good old Aussie kid who absolutely adored sport and the idea that I could merge my professional and personal passions and find a away in a space to live and breathe every day in sports.

Hannah Warren (02:31.769)

I was so excited. So I joined that agency. I got stuck in. I've kind of found my niche, which was awesome. And I never looked back back really. I updated my LinkedIn profile very excitedly saying I was a sports marketing person. And luckily I was approached by the team at Bastion. So I went and worked with the Watts boys for quite a number of years and absolutely loved that experience.

Cut my teeth. working on a number of strategies, not only rights holder side, but also brand side. I always say agency is just such a phenomenal training ground. You learn so much so quickly. It's so fast paced. It's so diverse. You've got the opportunity to get such a depth and breadth of experience. So did that. And then it was time to have a think about jumping brand side. So I did that.

Sean (03:21.058)
So yeah, so I want to stop you there because like you did get sort of like that apprenticeship in agency land is we would like to see everything has to be in a land in Australia, you're in agency land or you're a club land. So in agency land, did get that crossover of one, multiple brands that are trying to activate into sport and how are they using sport, but then also doing some rights holder stuff.

Sean (03:45.902)
I think we first crossed paths. with the mini -roos and the Socceroos. And I was working in FFA and you're doing activations with the mini -roos. And so that side of, you know, how to, and it was really that early time too of how to brand start activating with the digital channels of the team. So moving from, we're setting up tents outside of stadiums and getting signups to, hey, how do we leverage Facebook audiences and Instagram audiences and stuff?

So you think that was a bit of a, you know, almost a sports marketing MBA to take your education to the next level of working with multiple brands, multiple audiences, different demographics, you know, on the agency side.

Hannah Warren (04:26.939)
Yeah, it was fantastic and really cool to be a part of that really transformative period. think I was sort of, yeah, literally part of the groups that were starting to merge and evolve contracts from you get two court decals and your logo goes here and your logo on the tent goes here and activations are limited to physical activations. And I think seeing it from a brand perspective and from a rights holder perspective.

Sean (04:45.123)
Yep.

Hannah Warren (04:53.793)
You realize that's so restrictive because physical assets are always going to tap out at some point. You can only stick so many logos on so many tents and you've only got so much resource to be able to do physical activations and physical activations and grassroots engagement, real human connection will always have its place. And I think we've maybe moved a little bit too far the other way, but at the time.

There was just this huge opportunity that was presented by the wave of digital engagement and rights holders starting to understand, hang on a second, there's a huge extended reach we can achieve if we're activating across all of our digital audiences. And then how do brands tap into that in a meaningful and authentic way? Because you can't logo slap a piece of content, you can, but it doesn't really work. So what does that look like? Cool to be a part of that specific industry as it went through that period of really significant change.

Sean (05:49.878)
And so then, you know, like we just said, you're in agency land and then you went sort of product side brand side, you know, in two scenes at both Nissan and Therabody. What were some of the lessons, you know, jumping out of that multifaceted, multiple clients, multiple pieces to a single, you know, a single project, a single, you know, a single product, single purpose. Like what was the, how, did you have to sort of change gears and reframe your thinking?

Hannah Warren (06:16.229)
I really got stuck into brand. think jumping brand side, I really started to learn the value of brand. I think when you're in agency land, you kind of bounce in and out. And so you absolutely try to deeply understand your clients and their purpose and their vision and what they're trying to achieve and their objectives. But you're never going to become deeply immersed in it because you can't, you delivering a project that's got a singular lifespan and really is only one piece of the puzzle.

Jumping brand side, really do get to understand how imperative it is that successful partnerships sit within a broader marketing plan, which sits within a broader business plan. And you get to understand all of the different cogs. And you also get to understand how partnerships have a real depth and breadth of value.

That is not necessarily just limited to marketing. There's all sorts of opportunities you can have aligning as a brand or as a product or as a business with a sporting code. And that could be things like employee engagement. That could be things like CSR opportunities. And you can, once you really get under the skin or under the hood of a brand, listen, under the hood, you can start to understand how you can extrapolate so much more value than just the logo goes on the front of the Guernsey and is on Friday Night Football. So yeah.

Sean (07:37.998)
I mean, it's a really important point because again, whether you are working as an agency or even as the rights holder and you have sold this sports partnership that's most likely comes in some sort of box, it's only, you know, two to 5 % of the total business of the partner that you are working with. so realizing that, you know, and I think that employment engagement piece is one, know, sustainability is risen as a sponsorship asset now once sports have started.

Realize it like that piece of understanding the business, their brand, but also realizing the other opportunities they're trying to achieve that if you just stay inside your little box, you'll always just stay inside your little box. really is limiting, but it's sort of, that's the scope and that's the brief that we get when we're on the sports side of, I've got to help them sell cards or make their brand bigger or sell more widgets or get more people into their store.

And we're trying to do with our fan base, but not realizing what's their, you know, what's their overall objective, you know, how can we help outside, you know, over deliver those kinds of things, but actually might expand the partnership, you know, down the track.

Hannah Warren (08:49.553)
Totally. And I think Therabody is actually a really good example of where there was a really genuine alignment. And I think the brand came very hot out the gates, like incredible growth across the globe in a really, really short period of time. And everybody wanted to work with Therabody, everybody being the biggest sports clubs in the world, Real Madrid, Cristiano Ronaldo, the Tottenham Hotspurs.

They are master global sports portfolio that was quite astonishing when I was first approached for the role as part of the APAC team. But what was interesting was I think they forged a lot of those sports marketing partnerships initially because of all of the markers that you would think, like let's sell more stuff, essentially.

But what was interesting was we sort of, think the brand probably did itself a disservice in the early days, forging just a huge number of partnerships without actually recognizing that what they had was a really genuine connection because it was the high performance teams that were driving the desire for these partnerships, not the marketing teams.

The product was that good that physiotherapists and high performance teams wanted these products and they were more than happy to have Therabody onboard as a partner in a very different capacity to their other partners. And I think the brand is just now starting to really… dive into that authenticity and start to sell that story because that's the really powerful story about

Therabody is there are very few brands that the sporting codes themselves go after because they want them. And so you have to make sure that from a consumer and a fan and an audience perspective, they understand that, that this isn't about Therabody going and buying sports sponsorships. This is about a genuine and authentic and purpose -led connection, which is let's help people move better and Therabody enables people and high -performance athletes to do that.

Sean (10:47.384)
So that's your, you know, how you got here, you know, agency product and now your sport. Like you said, it's the side door because a lot, you know, some people will get into sport, you know, at the very, at the lowest of levels, inside sales, you know, operations. Yes, I'll wear the mascot. Yes, I'll set up a tent, you know, yes, I'll hand out flyers and work their way up. And it's, you know, it's quite a valid method to get into sport and work your way up.

But there are now more avenues to come from other parts, whether from agency or product to bring a different view. How do you look back on your experience and say, hey, how has it set you up for the role you've now got in Ebol Australia?

Hannah Warren (11:32.359)
That's a great question. I see so much opportunity with Netball. I really do. I don't drink the Kool -Aid of Netball. I really don't. I actually think that there have been a lot of times where I have been quite frustrated with Netball because I've been on the other side of the fence with Nissan and saying, if I was in the tent, I'd probably do that differently.

And I did actually laugh with my partner when I was offered this role that, well, now I've got no excuse. And he said, no, now you're in the tent. So, you know, I won't hear anything else about this. I was like, okay, cool, pressure's on.

But I think what I'm really keen to make sure Netball starts doing is owning its power and its authority and its unique identity within the sporting landscape. And I think I've from the outside grown quite frustrated with the rising tide of women's sport, which is everybody's favorite topic. And it's a real threat to netball because netball has always had the opportunity to rest on the laurels of we're the number one participation sport for women and girls.

Hannah Warren (12:38.727)
And that's an incredible statement to be able to make and one that takes a huge volume of work, not only from the Netball Australia team, but from our incredible MOs all the way down to the volunteers who keep the grassroots running. It's a phenomenal statement. But at the end of the day, it's what got us to this position is not going to keep us in this position.

And so it's time for Netball to start putting some stakes in the ground and not looking necessarily backwards, standing on the shoulders of giants for sure, but actually starting to be a bit future focused and making sure that we understand that we've got a real job to do and a real responsibility, not only to the participation base that currently plays netball, but also to the future generations to make sure that this code continues to grow.

And we need to keep up with the industry and the times in terms of our commercial offerings, our mark coms offerings, our consumer products, all of these touch points needs to need to absolutely be industry, if not excelling standard.

Sean (13:41.582)
So yeah, you've set it up there, giving a little bit of history of netball. And for international listeners, netball is a phenomenon in this part of the world. Like you said, one of the highest participation sports in Australia. My mom played netball, my sister played netball, my niece just saw on Facebook, has played 50 games for Bungaree. My daughter played netball all the way through school.

it is a phenomenon from a participation point of view. And yeah, we did discuss that at sport next, you know, the rise of women's sports and the fact that women's globally, you know, both here in the U S is, you know, I don't want sound like bill Simmons is having a moment, but it's like, it is definitely in a way, a wave and, know, and the Olympics, both, both performances, and also the viewership, shows that the sports world is and sports fans are willing to watch support women's sports.

And so, like you said, Netball has been in the one position, the leader from a participation and having an elite sport for a long time. when you came into the role as head of marketing and being a little bit of an outside voice, do you think that was something that wasn't one embraced but also needed, like you said, to secure your future?

Hannah Warren (15:08.711)
I think so. when I arrived, looked at Suncorp Supernetball was the first sort of code that we really had to focus in on because I was arriving just on the finish of the 2022 season, 2021. Anyway, our season was finishing and so the lens turns to what are we going to do next year?

And I…remember presenting three core pillars and saying it's time for netball to shake some of the stereotypes because they are becoming problematic, especially as the rise of women's sport and other codes are putting their stake in the ground for what they stand for in terms of I think the AFLW do a phenomenal job of standing on inclusivity and diversity and embracing absolutely everybody and welcoming absolutely everybody.

But there are some really unique and special things about Netball and we don't have to be bashful. I think Netball can often suffer from a stereotype of we are the nice girls with ribbons in our hair that are a little bit exclusive. feels Netball can feel very overly officious. Netball is a phenomenal game and it is.

iconically Australian, but if you're unfamiliar with it, it can feel a little bit exclusionary because there are a lot of rules and there's a lot to understand. And so there's some stereotypes to be broken down. There's also some stereotypes to be broken down in terms of just how elite these athletes are. and so when I arrived, I presented sort of three pillars that I wanted to build the brand strategy of Suncorp Super Netball on, which were, sorry, not sorry.

We're not going to apologize for who we are or how impressive we are as a code or our history or what we stand on. We built this house. We don't stand on the shoulders of a men's code. Like, Nepal is built by women, not necessarily for women, we're expanding, but it is forever and forever will be an incredibly safe space for girls and women. And we're really proud of that. And so…

Hannah Warren (17:08.901)
We built this house. continue to build this house. We don't have a big brother code coming to save us with a checkbook anytime soon. This is absolutely what we are. And you've got to see it to be it. It is absolutely our responsibility and Netball responsibility, Netball's responsibility, I believe, to ensure that we inspire a generation of girls and women to be whatever they want to be. And that doesn't necessarily need to be an elite Netballer.

We have a female CEO, we have a female chairperson, our board is filled with women, our executive is filled with women. There is an incredibly impressive cohort of women that drive Netball Australia. And I love that about Netball as well. And I think Suncorp Super Netball serves as an inspiration piece for everything that you are capable of as a woman, irrespective of what that looks like.

So when I delivered those three pillars, I was really nervous because exactly as you say, Sean, I was an outsider voice and I was pretty open and honest about some of my frustrations or some of my observations. But I mentioned all of those in my interview because I figured you may as well know my perspective and what I'm coming in to do from the get go.

Hannah Warren (18:20.919)
And really pleasingly, they were. unanimously embraced. And when I actually sat down with all of the marketing leads from all of the SSN clubs and we had a real workshop and stopped down and I wanted to hear their perspectives about how they felt the league was positioned, how they felt their club brands and identities were positioned.

There was an absolute quorum of, yes, it is time for us to stand up and to absolutely talk about where we exist and what netball represents in the ecosystem of the Australian sporting landscape.

Sean (18:48.91)
So do you see yourself coming in, I mean, not on purpose, but being that sort of change agent and change catalysts, and sometimes change is really hard. Like people go, this is the way we've done it. This is the position we've always been, but it was something, like you said, you went through the interview process. This is what I want to do. This is where I see the sport or at least the brand and it can lead the sport. Normally that is hard to do, but was it something that…

It just felt both internally, Nepal wanted it, but then also these outside pressures of, cause it was that four or five years of all these other sports were getting all the kudos for women's sport. And there was a little bit of Nepal going, Hey, Hey, Hey, we're over here. We've been here for ages. And so it was that little bit of pent up, Hey, we want to take ours back. And that was sort of the internal like, yeah, we want to get behind you because yeah, we want to, we're in for this fight.

Hannah Warren (19:44.091)
Yeah, there was a lot of emotion around it and a lot of people had a real attitude of, yeah, about time, let's do this. The CEO, Kelly Ryan, at the time when I presented what the campaign, what the external brand expression and campaign was, her only critique was, have we gone hard enough? Which I absolutely loved. And I said, no, I think, I think we've just gone just the right amount. But we'll wait and see how this is received.

Hannah Warren (20:13.677)
And there was, some genuine nervousness when we went live with our We Are Here campaign, which is a riff on that very tried and true, here if you need, which we thought was a real symbol of netball feeling like we're always taking a step back. Like we're always, here, but only if you need. And you would never think that in a male code, you're never going to get a male athlete that's like, but only if you want, like I'm available. It's like, no, no, we're like, no, we're absolutely here.

Hannah Warren (20:43.543)
But there's a line in the, in the manifesto or in the ad that we put together that says, they said you play a game for little girls. So we showed them what little girls can do. And I just think that's, that's the essence. That's the point. It's not beating our chests for the sake of it. And it's not saying, Hey, we're over here. Look at, look at us. It's more about owning what has always authentically been true of our code. We're not.

We're not making up stuff. It's not a lick of paint. It's not spin. We're showing the world what little girls are capable of. They're capable of growing up into the most impressive elite dedicated athletes. That also put on a bloody good show. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say that on the… There we go.

Sean (21:27.286)
You're completely allowed to say that. I mean, it's very much on brand, right? And so, you and so you launched the We Are Here campaign and you go through that process of getting buy -in, you launch that initial creative and that, you know, those storytelling threads and you get that big push. Everyone gets behind it at launch and there's a lot of, you know, back slapping and everyone going way to go Hannah and, know, and

And that's what a brand launch is. But then I'm really interested in how do you go from that brand launch every day? That's amazing. Look at the new season two. How do you then keep that brand strategy going after the launch?

Hannah Warren (22:32.593)
Great question. Yes, the big bang and then what have you got? Yeah. That's where sports great because sport will throw curve balls and stories. And that's where you can start leaning into all of the individual athlete stories, the journey that the clubs are about to go on. I certainly, a lot of backslapping for me, but I by no means did this alone. We work with the amazing kids at TLA wildcard. Shout out to them. Absolutely great operators and my team also.

Head of Design, Head of Creative, Justin Bedford and the whole team. Absolutely phenomenal job. firstly, I do have to call out that this was not of my own device completely. Lots and lots and lots of hands went into that. yeah, I think one of the amazing things we've had join the team or a member who's joined the team is Erin Lyons and she's an ex Chief of Staff for News Corp. And Erin understands what a hook is.

And so it's been phenomenal to watch that team really start to drive the editorial of Suncorp Super Netball, which we've never, we hadn't previously focused on well enough, in my opinion. We need to start telling athletes stories and creating our own news engine. And we'd been very good in previous years to tell the story of what happens on court in New South Wales, Swift's beat the West coast fever by.

two points and this shooter had these stats and that all has its place, absolutely. But what are the stories behind all of that? And we all know the sports trends that fans are following athletes far more than they're following clubs.

So we have to start moving with that and telling those stories. And we have to start making sure that if we've set the brand platform, how do all of the touch points for Suncorp Super Netball continue to elevate and speak to that? So that's not just the brand team as well. That's our incredible events and operations team who all took the brief of we are here and said, okay, we get that. How does that roll out across sports pres for the final series? How does that inform what our merch range looks like?

Hannah Warren (24:40.535)
How does that inform, there's so many other pieces of the puzzle that keep it moving and keep it alive after you've had that initial kind of sugar rush of the campaign's here. It's a stake in the ground. This is amazing.

Sean (24:52.259)
And so some of the success of that campaign, you've recently just concluded one of the most successful seasons, the Super Netball, most watched from across Foxtel, biggest opening round, most attended women's sport in Australian history. Like that's an amazing foundation. Like what's next?

Hannah Warren (25:13.759)
Great question. We're continuing to connect the pieces of the puzzle. That's what's next for Netball. Netball is not just Suncorp Super Netball. Netball is Woolworths Net Set Go, our introductory program, and that's got some incredibly exciting evolutions coming down the pipeline. We've got our incredible Origin Australian Diamonds, are world champions, Commonwealth gold champions. Every trophy you can imagine, they've got it in the cabinet.

And we've also got a World Cup on home soil in 2027. whilst the results of Suncorp Super Netball are phenomenal, we don't want to become blinkered to just Suncorp Super Netball because we are Netball Australia. So we have a responsibility to make sure that Suncorp Super Netball is thriving.

But how do we make sure that we don't constantly fall into the trap of just switching from product to product or brand to brand without connecting the pieces of the puzzle, which is the next journey we're about to go on as we look at resetting and what our 2025 strategic plan leading into a World Cup on home soil in 27. Yes, high fives all around amazing, but how do we start better connecting the pieces of the puzzle?

Sean (26:27.395)
And it is, I mean, it is like you said, those, it's tough to call them products, but it is, you know, national team, grassroots, you know, super team and getting all of those pieces working. is, it is relatively unique, I think to the, to the Australian market, you're not just a league and you're not just running participation, like having to, you know, solve that problem, but also connect, know, connect those stories and, you know, getting your team, telling those stories and connecting with fans is a 12 months of the year job.

Hannah Warren (27:04.967)
100 % and netball is a lot of things to a lot of people. It's everything from a first foray into sport into a ticket to a tier one entertainment product in super netball to yeah, to international World Cup territory. And so we have to when we look at our our consumer and our audience audiences.

wanted to say segmentation, but we segment them too much, which is why I deliberately avoided it because we don't want to keep thinking about our consumers as you're a Woolworths Net Setgo consumer or you're an Origin Diamonds consumer. have to, yes, of course, tailored comms are always the greatest advantage, but we want to make sure that we're also, again, sound like a broken record, but connecting the dots because

Hannah Warren (27:55.011)
Netball is a whole ecosystem and we want to start making sure that there's a symbiotic relationship between our products. If you are starting Woolworths Net Set Go, how are we in the right ways introducing you to Suncorp Super Netball and so many other codes do it so well. You look at Woolworths Big Bash, look at Napoz Kick.

The IP of their elite codes is trickled down to make sure that from the moment you strap on that first pair of footy boots or you pick up that bat, you already identify as a member of X club. Netball needs to, and if you don't want to let the cat out of the bag, but watch this space, Netball needs to go on that journey as well.

Sean (28:35.395)
And is that why, know, taking your, you know, we are here to, we start here, starting to make some of those, some of those connections to say, hey, you're at NetSec Go, but yet you could be, you could be a vixen or you could be a Thunderbird down the track.

Hannah Warren (28:51.591)
100%, 100 we want to start connecting the dots and we want to start making sure that people understand that Netball, again, is an ecosystem and making sure even from a business perspective that we are turning grassroots participants into fans and ultimately consumers. That's the business of sport.

Sean (29:12.377)
And it is something that the studies do show you play a sport, you will become a fan of the sport, but it's not something that just goes, cool, you play it. You will. There's still work that needs to be done. And is that something that we talked about? We worked on a project with the Mini -Roos, is soccer's stuff, in doing that piece.

That is something that has continually grown over the past 15 to 20 years of both commercializing your grassroots, but then also getting that fan development and that fan development pathway.

And it is something that is a challenge, you know, in sports around the world, you know, there's lots of kids playing soccer in the US and they're still trying to get them to the MLS or the National Women's Soccer League and those kinds of things. So it's not a new problem, but is that something that you're like really focused on to figure out, hey, I've got all of these players, netball players playing, how do I get them?

How do I get more of them to the games? How do I get more of them out of those tribes? know, sport is all about tribes. Is that something that is on your wish list, on your to -do list or things that keep you up at night or all of the above?

Hannah Warren (30:21.049)
It's the thing, all of the above. It's a great umbrella for that one. Yes, it is all of the above. And it is the opportunity that absolutely anybody in sport can say for netball, which is we absolutely rightly boast that we have over a million participants in Australia. Our broadcast numbers needs to match that and reflect that. And that is the opportunity that absolutely everybody can say. And I think that speaks back to us making sure netball.

us making sure that we don't get so laser focused on Suncorp Super Netball that we forget about what the grassroots landscape looks like. And I think a good example of that at the moment is we're talking about Woolworths Net Set Go and the resources that we provide out to Clubland and communicating with this audience and having a qualitative feedback sessions with groups of actual volunteers who knew you could just go and talk to people. What a thrill. Speaking to them.

Good old fashioned posters next to the canteen on a Saturday are what they want because most of the time to connect with an association is a president at bonbeachfootballnetballclub .com .au. Who knows who that's going to? Who knows if they open it? Goodness knows most of them are still on a big pond, which tells you everything you need to know about the grassroots audience. And, and I joke, but at the same time, if we're going to convert the grassroots, I love when people say, the grassroots, like it's a singular homogenous group.

Hannah Warren (31:49.531)
Like, Nepal is so disparate from Victoria to WA to the NT to Tasmania. They play different seasons. They play different competitions. Loosely, you can group them into formats, but the grassroots is something that takes a lot of time and resource and energy to understand. And then again, that other favorite phrase, engage with the grassroots. What does that look like? And that's really, really different for each code. And I think the trick to actually

Hannah Warren (32:18.243)
Having that conversion or the trick, don't have the answer for full disclosure. But in my opinion, one of the things you need to do is to actually really understand the grassroots and the community you're trying to engage with and understand from their perspective, what are the barriers? What are the blockers? What do they need? What problem are you solving for them to get them to switch on the telly, to watch KO, to watch Foxtel, to buy a ticket? And if you continue to make decisions on their behalf or make assumptions on their behalf,

Sean (32:22.008)
Yeah.

Hannah Warren (32:47.717)
You'll get some stuff right, but ultimately you'll get a lot of wastage in what you do because you weren't grounded in an insight to begin with.

Sean (32:55.437)
Yeah, I mean, it is both the challenge and the opportunity. But then it also comes back to execution for your team, what they're producing and what they're putting out. And really having that, lot of the time, you talked about it with audiences. I always talk to digital teams, like, who are you doing this for? And having that intent of, yes, I'm going to build out this hero building.

Awesome creative, tell the stories of Super Netball, you can do that just for the fans that are always turning up or you can do it for that 15 year old that is playing on a weekend in, you know, in six degree weather in Hungary and still running out and playing netball and realizing that, you want to make sure that, you know, Grace is going to come to a game down, down the track.

And so how do you, you know, I guess, instruct your team when you've got such a wide brief and it's such a wide audience to sort of pull some of those levers to talk to that new audience that you pretty much want to welcome into products like Super Netball or to watch the diamonds.

Hannah Warren (34:06.213)
My team is two things. The first one is my team is super data driven. So we create content that people engage with. And we also create content that new audiences engage with. So exactly the example that you've just given, I asked my team the same thing. I'm more than happy to green light projects, video projects, whatever we're doing, but we have to know who we're talking to. And we all love driving engagement with the audience that absolutely loves us.

Actually Netball's got an incredible available rusted on fanbase that we absolutely adore. But we know the age demographic of that fanbase and I can, it probably won't come as any secret that it doesn't over index in Gen Z.

So we've got a job to do making Netball a little bit cool. And that won't necessarily be content that makes sense to our rusted on loyal fan base. It certainly won't offend them, but they might not absolutely adore it. But that's okay because it wasn't made or designed for them. It was made and designed for the next gen and the future. So that's one piece in the data driven, which is very analytical. And the other one is my team.

Sean (35:07.673)
I mean, it's really, sorry, that's really important because the whole, you know, that audience who might not like it can be very noisy. And so you need someone like yourself to say, that's okay, we're gonna take some of those nips because it's not for them. And because if you end up creating things for everybody, or just the noisy folk, you'll end up, you know, not getting that growth piece. So it's a really important piece that you need, you know.

C level or bosses to understand we are going to take a hit here. But also that audience is not on that platform over there. So we won't tell them about that platform over there.

Hannah Warren (35:47.91)
TikTok is perfect example of that. Don't pay attention to what's happening on TikTok. TikTok is serving, is doing exactly what it needs to do. You don't need to look at it or think about it. I'm being silly. Yeah, it's very much an education piece within the business. And we have the most phenomenal history and traditions committee who keep us very grounded in our roots of all of those that have come before us. But it's a balancing act to make sure that we pay homage to all of those.
You know, my grandmother included who started an association who I'm sure would be saying, Hannah, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I'd like, that's fine, Nan, don't worry about it. I promise. It's for the young gens and it makes sense to them. But always staying true to what Netball is as well. So I don't think we ruffle too many feathers because at the end of the day, we're not going to push it so far that we've lost who we are and what we stand for. We're just going to change the message slightly to appeal to a different audience.

Sean (36:45.891)
So when you say data -driven and sort of instructing both your team when they're either designing something or assessing something that works, what are particular, are there particular tools that are helping you do that or are there particular stats that you're saying this is important to us on what success looks like?

Hannah Warren (37:05.701)
Yep. My social media team live and breathe in meltwater. So there's constant real time reports across everything that we do. And we review them weekly, just as a snapshot. How did we do? What did that do? How did we go? And then we review them. We do a deep dive monthly and work out what are we doing? How do we need to pivot? What have we got in the pipeline?

Erin, who I alluded to earlier essentially has an editorial pitch meeting, which is phenomenal. All of the team come together and say, I think we could do a story here. I think we could do an athlete profile there. I've heard about this amazing piece. So yeah, that meltwater is probably the platform which has been around for eons, but do you what? I couldn't sing its praises highly enough to be honest.

Sean (37:49.463)
I I think both getting visibility of those stats, whatever tool it is, like across the team, is super important. And I love the pitch process because it helps the digital folk refine, hey, why am I doing this? Who am I doing this for?

Sean (38:14.209)
What stats that are causing, or what are the stats that you are chasing? So yeah, it's really important. Other than meltwater, I've been always looking at the marketing technology landscape that continues to grow.

Chief MarTech, they do an infographic 10 years ago, had 1000 tools and now it has 14. thousand tools and it can be tool overwhelmed, but are there, you know, you've already mentioned meltwater. Are there other tools that are in your toolbox that help you do what you do at Netball?

Hannah Warren (38:52.677)
We've absolutely loved the introduction of tradable bits campaigns into a lot of what we've been doing. They're short and sharp, but we've done a huge clean out of our CRM system. When I first started, we're still on an absolute journey as far as our data is concerned, but we did a real clean out and clean up. And one of the major focuses we had was on first party data and tradable bits has been an invaluable tool and lever for us to pull to really quickly.

Really quickly get people into our ecosystem and then continue to learn more about them as well in ways that are really simple and quick. we have at Netball, we've got lots of different experiences and athlete training sessions and signed merchandise. It's quite easy for us to stand up things like that that add value to our, don't, you can never just stand something up for the sake of it. It absolutely adds value to our consumers.

We always try to make sure that they're hyper engaging for our consumers and fun also, but they definitely feed our data set as well, which is great.

Sean (39:55.819)
So I mean, you mentioned earlier about what's next. I feel at least from what you've discussed, you sort of came in as a bit of that change agent and Netball was ready to sort of take on that challenge. Like what are the next steps for both Super Netball, for Netball overall, you say, we're to you in four or five years time, where do you want Netball to be?

Hannah Warren (40:25.145)
I would really like everybody, if you went and asked any consumer on the street or any member of the grassroots, what does Netball really stand for? What does it, what makes Netball special or different versus AFLW or NRLW or the Matildas? I would really like people to be able to give an answer first and foremost. And I would like it to be the answer that we have crafted and, and that we have continually started to represent in market.

At the moment, there's a lot of talk out in the ecosystem about the diamonds with a well cup on home soil, having their Matilda's moment. And I have to say it frustrates the bejesus out of me. I don't want the diamonds to have their Matilda's moment. The sentiment is true. I want mainstream media attention. I want the eyes of the nation and the pride of the nation on our golden girls.

But I don't want them to have a Matilda's moment because we're not football and World Netball is not FIFA. Netball is going to celebrate its centenary in 2027. And so I want Netball to start putting the pieces of the puzzle together. I keep saying that. But from World West Net Set go through to Suncorp Super Netball to the million participants that play it and then to the athletes of the Origin Australian Diamonds for today and tomorrow and the athletes of the Black Swans, our First Nations team.

What is it about all of those quite disparate teams and groups and products and brands? How do they all represent what is intrinsically true and unique and special about netball? And there's a red thread through all of them. And it's more than the set of rules that govern the game and the sport that is played.

There's something bigger and we've got to find that and then articulate that in a way that is that is true to who we are, but also engages not only this generation, but the generations to come.

Sean (42:19.903)
Most definitely, well I look forward to it and I want to get to the Sports Geek Closing Five. You would have been to a lot of sports events in your time and your varied sports career, but do you remember the first sports event you ever attended?

Hannah Warren (42:34.927)
In what feels like a very full circle moment for me to make this omission, it was Sydney -Swifts, Sydney, not New South Wales, Swifts game. I was six years old and our current chairperson, Liz Ellis, was playing goalkeeper. So, there you go.

Sean (42:53.217)
There you go, very much full circle. And you would have been a lot of sports events, been to different sports events around the world, and also different corporate sports facilities. Is there a favourite food that you've had in sport?

Hannah Warren (43:14.065)
Hot chips, and I won't be convinced otherwise. you're doing it wrong, if you're doing anything else. Unless you're at local football, in which case a steamed dim sim never hurts.

Sean (43:24.542)
Seamed him sin. That's a good one. I haven't had a day seeming seen as an answer for a while Yeah, so that's that's a that's a good one I actually still haven't seen any sports event or a footy netball venue do the Dim sims on the barbecue. That's the that's the game changer. They had a dim sim or a barbecue. I Don't knock it to you try it frozen dim sim cut him in half put him straight on the barbecue

Hannah Warren (43:43.073)
No!

Hannah Warren (43:48.839)
Okay.

Sean (43:53.316)
and then flip them over a couple of times, dip them in the soy sauce. It's like a steamed dim sim and a fried dim sim together.

Hannah Warren (43:53.36)
Okay.

Sean (44:02.746)
It's Christmas game changer for me. That's the only thing I bring on Christmas Day and it's like the entree of actually it's Boxing Day tradition. And it's a Boxing Day tradition and yeah, that's the only thing I have to bring on Boxing Day is a bag of dim sims, keeps our beers cold and everyone starts off the day with an absolutely delicious treat. People in the US can Google that and be further disgusted by Australian eating habits.

Hannah Warren (44:03.025)
You

Hannah Warren (44:07.993)
No.

Hannah Warren (44:12.975)
It's boxing day for sure. Yeah.

Hannah Warren (44:25.265)
Happy days.

Hannah Warren (44:30.577)
Horrified.

Sean (44:33.039)
Hannah, what's the first app you opened in the morning?

Hannah Warren (44:37.297)
teams to work out what meeting I'm late for.

Sean (44:42.37)
Okay. And then is there someone that you follow? might be someone, a colleague, might be someone you follow on social media, might be an author that the listeners should give a follow on why.

Hannah Warren (44:53.275)
I think anything that Bill Neff, who is the VP of marketing for Yeti, I think he's phenomenal. He's ex Under Armour and then has spent many, many years at Yeti. But if as a marketer, you want to listen to someone who really understands the true impact of deeply understanding.

the communities that you're trying to engage with and therefore building a brand that people have a genuine affinity, genuine affinity with. Give him a Google, he's done a whole bunch of talks at a whole bunch of very fancy summits across the globe and he's been a real influence. And he was introduced to me by my old boss, Simon Trainor, who's ex Nike and also an absolute professional and incredible person in this space. So yeah, that's my recommendation.

Sean (45:43.258)
Terrific, Bill Neff, we'll check him out lastly and you can answer this personally, but then you can put your Netball Super Netball hat on. What social media platform is your MVP?

Hannah Warren (45:55.207)
TikTok. I love what TikTok has done. It has changed the game and I will freely admit it has shaken up my millennial, perfectly curated Instagram grid life and made me challenge everything I know about brand guidelines and you you couldn't possibly do that. My favorite TikTok is the one with Emirates. Emirates of all brands and the stupid cat dancing over the top of it and down. And I just thought, okay, wow.

But if you want to be the children of the future, they're going to rule the world. And so you've got to play that game. And we've achieved some phenomenal growth and it's kept our team deliberately agile and very consumer focused because you've got to go with the flow and move with it and stay true to yourself in that swirl. But yeah, I love TikTok. It's great.

Sean (46:54.452)
I mean, it is a real valuable point of, you here you are, talk about brand, the importance of brand, this big campaign, here it is. And like I said, here's our brand guidelines. And you go to TikTok and it's like house on fire. And you're just turning around and going, and it's like, okay, but you've got to, you know, to, and I'm guessing there'll be people nodding that have had a CMO that's like banging down that you've got to use this certain font and pixels have to be aligned. it's like.

Hannah Warren (47:07.771)
TikTok doesn't care.

Sean (47:22.072)
That's not how TikTok works. And yet, and I'm sure there's lots of digifolk that have posted the brand video on TikTok. Yeah, it didn't work well. It's like, yeah, because TikTok don't like that stuff. So it's really refreshing to hear that from someone that is so on brand, you know, talking about brand and the importance of it, but to understand that some platforms, TikTok in particular, need that flexibility.

Hannah Warren (47:43.429)
Yeah, you got to be fit for channel and I think TikTok, it was very easy to say that until a platform that thrives on chaos arrived and it really tested some people's willingness to, can we put that song across? Are we saying, okay, cool. Yeah, all right, no worries.

Sean (47:59.118)
Yeah, and it continues to and that's the thing. And so it's going to keep challenging more folks. So Hannah, I appreciate you taking the time. Good to catch up with you again. Is there a way what's the best way for people who have listened and enjoyed this podcast can reach out to you?

Hannah Warren (48:18.196)
is this like, is this a personal email of shout out?

Sean (48:21.508)
Well, no, they can, but you know, is it LinkedIn for them to connect with you?

Hannah Warren (48:26.053)
LinkedIn. No, find me on LinkedIn is probably the best way to get a hold of me. I love the overly professional world of LinkedIn. So look forward to talking about myself in third person with you on LinkedIn. I'm sorry. I love LinkedIn and it's incredible professional engagement platform. It just sometimes feels a little bit like corporate networking, but in a digital form, but by all means, reach out.

Sean (48:50.746)
But that's also the definition of LinkedIn. And that's how it is used and effectively. yes, after talking about TikTok and then going to LinkedIn, it is a bit of a leap. And thanks for taking the time. I look forward to catching up with you soon, potentially at a netball game sometime soon.

Hannah Warren (49:11.397)
Yes please, Sean. I also note that there is no jumper or dress in the background there so we'll be fixing that sometime soon.

Sean (49:18.392)
No worries, cheers mate.

Hannah Warren (49:20.421)
Thanks Sean.