Leveraging data and email to engage fans – Dani Brown, OKC Thunder

This transcript has been transcribed by Riverside.fm, no edits (please excuse any errors)

Sean (00:01.762)
Very happy to welcome Dani Brown. She's the manager for CRM and email marketing at the Oklahoma City Thunder. Dani, welcome to the podcast.

Dani Brown (00:09.801)
Thank you so much for having me. It's nice to be here and chat with you again and see you virtually after seeing you in person for a little

Sean (00:19.31)
Exactly, exactly. I always start the podcast asking people how they got their start in sports. What about yourself?

Dani Brown (00:27.071)
so I am a big, pro networking. So I actually went to a Tulsa shock, which is a WNBA team that doesn't exist anymore, but I went to their career fair and I handed out my resume to a bunch of people looking for sales and like guest relations jobs. And I said, I want to be in data. And they all looked at me a little bit crazy. and so I thanked the speaker who, Scott Loft, who is my VP now.

And he was speaking and I said, hey, this is what I want to do. And he said, we're hiring a part -timer, me your resume. And I like wrote down his email as fast as humanly possible. And I started part -time three weeks later and then full -time six days after graduating college. So it's kind of really quick, but I tell people like network, network, network, like you've got to get in front of the faces. You have to make connections to get into sports and that's the one connection I needed.

Sean (01:24.376)
Well that covers off my last question. Normally that's my last question. What's your advice for people to get into sports? And your origin story is that advice.

Dani Brown (01:32.177)
It's the best advice. I've heard a lot of different stories, but I feel like they always lead back to connections and who you can either meet or know. Now with LinkedIn, you can just connect and chat there, but whatever it is, getting that kind of foot in the

Sean (01:47.352)
So you say data, I say data. What drew you to the world of data?

Dani Brown (01:51.903)
To be honest, just, really liked math. I'm science, English, reading, history. I never really my best subjects. And a high school math teacher, my calculus teacher said, hey, you know, they're starting to blend some of those, the math and sports. And she knew I liked sports. So I was a manager of my basketball team in high school. And I thought I was going to be this amazing team side. I thought I'd be on the team side.

And then as I kind of learned to grow in sports and then different movies coming out and different things where it's like, no, this could be used for business. I decided that that would be the better route for me and kind of went that direction in

Sean (02:34.444)
And so then that first role at Thunder was in business analytics space.

Dani Brown (02:40.495)
Yeah, was before it was business intelligence. It was called data operations. But I actually really did more email marketing toward the beginning. So my even though I had a stats degree, the email marketing piece was in that department. And so it just made sense for me to do coding and and send out emails and pull lists at the time. But that's kind of where I started and then kind of grew into CRM a few years after

Sean (03:06.104)
So, you you said you were attracted to data and like data means a lot of things to different people, even inside an organization. When someone says data to you, what does it mean to

Dani Brown (03:17.609)
To me, it sounds funny, but it's almost, I kind of blend the marketing and the data together. So to me, I kind of see all these data points of people. And I just think like, how can we connect them all to make them get to the end goal? So for me, it's almost like a web.

I see kind of more of a spider web of just different data points and trying to figure out how we can get to the end goal, which for us is getting people either watching the game, at the game, buying a ticket, going to a camp, whatever that may be, it's figuring out the data points to get

Sean (03:52.342)
And so often on the podcast when I'm talking to data folk like yourself, they discuss the famed CRM journey. We're on this journey. There's no end point. Where do think you are? And OKC and your team are in what part of the CRM journey are you

Dani Brown (04:11.271)
Yeah, I feel like we have a lot of different ideas, but it's when you can actually get them put together. I feel like we're really good at getting, for now, at least getting the ticket buyer journeys and those kind of very mainstream. I think it's really figuring out like merchandise and then putting in youth and then trying to figure out, I think with the Thunder, especially it's an interesting because

We're a newer organization, right? We're like 16, 17 years. And so we don't have that kid that grew up. I didn't grow up, I'm from Oklahoma, I didn't grow up a Thunder fan. So it's figuring out how to get that next generation in who literally was a baby when the Thunder came. So how are we getting them in the door? How are we making these lifetime Thunder fans get into the door, kind of get that fandom?

Whereas you're also converting some people that have been in Oklahoma a long time that maybe followed a different team. So I think it's actually a really fun time for us because we have this almost like youthful journey to figure out that some teams, I mean, some teams just don't have that problem because they've been around so

Sean (05:20.974)
You don't have that historical fan base of the Celtics or the Lakers that have got ticket holders that have been there for 50 years and their children are automatically fans. So, mean, like you just said, there's a lot of teams that are on this youth strategy, but that's almost part of your whole strategy because you're still in this identifying new fans.

Dani Brown (05:23.508)
Right.

Dani Brown (05:39.997)
Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah. We're we're at a very weird spot right now where we can actually get these people in that that can actually start spending their money with us. And so trying to figure that out, not just not just the fans that said, hey, we're here to support Oklahoma, but but really these lifetime fans and creating that kind of legacy. So we're really at that that peak where we can start doing

Sean (06:07.212)
And one of things that data does give you is some assurity of who you can communicate with. And it's sometimes not affected by what's happening on the court, whether the team is winning or whether the team is losing. But how does your CRM strategy change, you know, when you've got a, you know, very successful team like you did in the last season that are doing great things in the court, how has that changed, you know, when the team's not

Dani Brown (06:32.767)
Yeah. So I mean, I've been there 10 seasons. So I've been there through eras where we were really good and eras were really bad. And I feel like it's definitely when, when there are times when there's a little on the court where we're working harder. So we're being more creative to your point of journey is like, you can have a couple journeys just running in the background when the team's doing well and people are calling and they're buying tickets.

And, as a CRM side, you're not actually having to be very creative, but when you get to that point, then you're getting to the creativity. How can we piece a package together? Where are we finding people? Like what needle in the haystack are we missing? We get to do a little, we also work with the G League team, the blue. So we get to do a little bit of experimenting with them, which is great for us. We love to sell tickets and support them. So some of the things we try with them, we try to duplicate, which is really great, but we are able to kind of play around a little bit on that kind of side.

When we have the time. But yeah, when there is a little, we're busy. It's just constantly like new ideas. Where are the people? Where's the data points to your point? Like trying to find the web. The web gets a little bit more sparse where you're trying to figure out who to reach out to.

Sean (07:45.206)
And then on the other side, when you are winning, like last year, you've got higher demands, more. And so you're still in that, well, we still got to capture these new fans that have just come on board, that are just following this young and up and coming team. Even though these tickets are scarce and you're not moving so many things financially, you still want to be building that database. So has that sort of become the focus as your ticket inventory depletes and those kinds of things?

Dani Brown (08:12.029)
Yeah, we and I don't know if you need to come to a game if you haven't, but we're really known for our guest experience. So we really move over if we don't have tickets to sell or that's kind of not our main focus. Our group turns to experience. So at that point, it's how can we get people opening the emails, making sure they know to be there early? What kind of tactics or can we have a little fan area where people come and make sure the parking experience is smoother?

We kind of really geared more toward experience when we're not looking at the ticketing side. We work with almost every department except for about like six or seven at this point. So we are working with marketing to make sure we're hitting the right. Maybe it's a neighborhood we're throwing t -shirts out, right? Like it's all these different things, but we kind of gear more toward experience when we don't need to be heavy on the ticket side at that

Sean (09:02.87)
And so, you know, when you go to conferences and we caught up recently at Seat, a lot of the times on the panels, they're talking about the latest and bright and shiny and it's social media and email, you know, isn't talked about as much as I think it should be. And, you know, you can hear the passion in your voice. What excites you about what you can do with

Dani Brown (09:23.677)
Yeah, so I will say it's definitely one of those that isn't the new shiny toy, but it is by far means like one of the easiest ways to get out there. mean, as much as like text marketing is great, there's a lot of hoops as much as, you know, any type of like app push, anything like that. You have to have all these different things turned on. So it's one way where we can really connect with our fans. We can do a lot of

I mean, there's so many things if we want to do it by zip code, if we're trying to do it by favorite player, you know, really target them to your point with the youth. If we know they have youth, maybe we're selling them a youth jersey instead of selling them something else. So we just were able to hit so many people and personalize more on kind of that one -to -one targeting. Whereas some of the other platforms, in my opinion, they can fall short or again, are we really reaching them because they have things turned off or turned on or haven't opted in.

It's just the easiest way to get out there. I think the other thing, which we kind of talked about a bit, we're trying to figure out youth, but we have a nice fan base. Our main fan base is a little older. And so they like email and they like interacting and that's an easy way for them to interact. So we want to be able to hit all the different kind of cultures and populations and different people.

And we have to be able to use them all and they all have to sync, right? They all have to look the same. So we want to have the same look and feel so that the person that is getting an email, they may see a very similar look to what a text would look like, but we know that those are two different people opening

Sean (11:03.276)
And from talking to some people who are in that email space and the data space, they have to also be the gatekeeper for that request. Because you said you're seven or eight different departments and they're all coming to you with, hey, Danny, we just want to send an EDM. Can we just send it to everybody because I just really need these results? How do you negotiate that process internally to say, actually, this is much better if it's sent to less people who are actually interested in this?

Sean (11:33.39)
How does that sort of internal process go at the thunder?

Dani Brown (11:39.443)
Yeah, so there's kind of a twofold to that. I think a big piece of that is education. So we really try to not only lead them in the right direction of saying, if you're wanting to reach the right people, we don't want people to unsubscribe, kind of that very surface level education, but we take it a step deeper. So I want them to know that this can hurt the domain. If we hurt the domain in Gmail or Yahoo or any of those big domains.

Now we're not getting the rest of our content out. So yes, you may have pushed this one thing, but if we can sell that camp out with only sending it to 10 ,000 people and not sending it to 50, then let's send it to those 10 that we know want it. And we're not hurting the rest of the database by sending it to the, to the 50 ,000. So I think it's really educating. think a lot of people don't know.

They think like, Hey, you can just click send and send as many as you want to your point. But if you can really educate them and show kind that trend of, we're getting a little high on a certain number, we've got to scale back a little bit. And it's not for just you, like we're not saying no to you, but we're saying yes to the organization, yes to the protection of our domain, and making sure that we're able to reach fans through all the domains. So it's really, I think, an education piece.

Sean (12:55.662)
And so part of that education piece, I should say, is not only advising and giving strategy advice on best practice on what to send, but then also how you go about reporting and proving and tapping the signs. see, I told you this, and this is what happens. So what do you do from a reporting point of view as part of that education piece to say, this is why this works, whether it's open rates, click -through, revenue -driven.

What's the important part from a reporting point of view for

Dani Brown (13:27.869)
Yeah, I mean, so we try to really think ahead. So any time we're doing, especially multi -channel marketing, we're tracking it. So if we're going to try something, we're always going to have a tracking link. If we have to wait to send an hour later or two hours later to get a tracking link, we're going to track. So our biggest thing is making sure we can track. I want to be able to, at the end of a campaign that marketing is running, even though we're not in the marketing department, I want to make sure we're supporting their campaigns. And if they're running one multi -channel,

We need to make sure that we can track, these buys came here, these buys came here, and have it tested. I think a lot of people will, they just go so fast, they don't think through it. And then at the end, like, well, what worked? And you have no idea because you used the same link for everything. So we're very intentional. think probably in last three or four years, we just really shifted over to everything has to be tracked. And that way we can deliver those results later. Because it's almost impossible if you just throwing stuff out there.

Sean (14:22.028)
Has it been, no, exactly, yeah. The old, the ticketing launch went well and you don't know whether it was social or a QR code on a billboard or a radio announcement with a link like, and serving as a success, but then you're back to square one of what worked. Are there tools that have helped, I guess, streamline that process, make those kind of things easier as opposed to maybe,

A few years ago, was all in an Excel spreadsheet and people were creating links and sending them out. Has there been some sort of automation or tools that have helped in that process?

Dani Brown (15:00.423)
I mean, I will say the help of QR codes use in general across the whole world has helped a lot. just people knowing how to use them, figuring out you don't have to have an app. mean, something as simple as that, just, lot of people thought I have to have some type of QR code reader. No, you just pull out your phone. the more that those were used helped a ton, because it's like, scan this QR code and everybody knows how to do it.

I do think in general, it's having a team and communicating. Again, it goes back to educating. We have a pretty young marketing team. So getting them on the same page of saying, hey, this is how you do it, walking them through, making sure that everybody knows, and having that connected goal of being able to report later. I think that that's kind of, to me, is the biggest piece is educating. So again, I've been there a long time being able to make sure that we're leading the charge on making sure that data

is the base before you run, you want to have that foundation. I think it's, again, I just think it goes back to educating the team on why we're doing

Sean (16:06.092)
I mean, that comms piece is so important. Like you said, though, yes, someone else is rushing to get it out because they want to make that sale or get those tickets on sale. It's like getting your staff to take a beat to check those things, make sure that link is there and it can be tracked because there's nothing worse than the sending it. It's like, wrong, mistyped or there's a typo or it's the wrong time. It's like, yeah. So testing is super important.

Dani Brown (16:29.543)
It's tested.

Sean (16:34.158)
But one of the, so talking about strategies is awesome, but sometimes there's execution where the big wins are. And there's been so much, I guess, enhancements and tweaks in email. When you look at it, 10 years ago, it was just like, here's an email and some block text and maybe an image of sorts and a button that had to be a certain size that you hope people clicked. Whereas now there's far more personalisations and changing, customizing it depending.

Dani Brown (16:51.545)
yeah.

Sean (17:03.316)
on how you do it. Have there been some execution wins, whether they're really big and rolling out some tech in there or just something simple like, know, what, you know, putting a simple emoji in the headline that some worries and makes things skyrocket that have worked for you recently.

Dani Brown (17:22.015)
Yeah, I mean, I think for us, we're really focusing and I know everybody's saying it for like 10 years, focusing on mobile. Everybody's opening on mobile. So if you make, even if you have this beautiful Jersey picture, but like you can't see the whole Jersey on the phone, then you have a problem, right? So we're working on mobilization, making sure that things are stacking. think one thing that was kind of old school email, you'd see like all these tiny images and you're sitting there like zooming in on your phone.

Well, now you can stack them. can stack the code. So really thinking not only like what it's going to look on your desktop and having everybody look at it, but hey, let's look at it on our phone. Should we stack this? Should we, you know, is it four across here, but then it's four all the way down or is it two? I mean, really thinking through that, also think, I personally think color blocking is a really kind of newer thing. I think some people did like the whole background color one, but being able to really color block and think almost more of like a graphic designer brain of what the email looks like,

I feel like it's really pushing emails into a whole different look and feel. Now with some ability, with some gifts and things like that, whereas before they took forever to load, we're all on a higher, faster internet. So I think there is, we're kind of moving into these almost more like graphic designs than more of an email. so I think we're really, email in general right now is kind of going that direction.

And so you can really tell the people that are focusing on that and really putting a keen eye to what this looks like and then once that aren't. And so I think that's to me, it's really thinking through and getting, we get our whole graphic design team involved. have an animation person. I mean, they're, really thinking through like what that looks like as you scroll down on your phone. Cause it is probably 90 % looking at their

Sean (19:09.794)
Yeah, and it is really important because you're sitting there on your laptop or on your desktop all day and you're designing something and it's the same for the people who are doing the social. It's like, that's great. You're seeing it on a big screen. What does it look like in your hand? Can it be read? Can it be read by an older demographic that is on Instagram or pulling out their iPhone? So I think that color blocking and that almost social medialization of email, like

Dani Brown (19:23.411)
Right.

Sean (19:38.21)
far more snackable. I don't have to read too much. It's nice and pretty. It sends a really single message, whereas emails many years ago might have had five articles and a heading and some text and then a read more. And now it's just like, no, no, he's a big image. Click on it if you want to read about it. And he's an offer. It is something that has changed.

Are you like me? Where do you look for inspiration? Are you subscribed to far too many sports teams emails?

Dani Brown (20:09.221)
I'm so I actually subscribe to far too many emails in general. I actually find a lot of my email ideas not from sports. I think that there's some amazing marketing minds out there and so I follow I mean like the gambit it could be car related. I you know it's shopping all that like literally food food joints quick quick service restaurant like doesn't matter. I'm like sign up sign

I sign up for all the rewards programs. I, cause you can all, I mean, even surveys, they send like a thank you survey. like, I'm going to take it. I'm going take it. I'm going to figure out what they're doing that way that maybe we can, take even like little bits out of. So really, I mean, I, I could sign up for sworn seams, but I, know a lot of them, right? So like, could call them up and say, Hey, what are you doing for your post game survey? But I'm not doing the post game order at Panda express or I don't know, wherever else, right? Like,

Sean (21:02.85)
Yeah,

Dani Brown (21:04.303)
I actually like non -sports related content that I can kind of look at and get ideas from more than sports teams.

Sean (21:13.742)
Yeah, most definitely. mean, you you've got, you know, food and customer service and other entertainment brands that are that are doing different things. They don't have the same cadence that sports does of it's another game and here's another ticket and that kind of thing. And it is a case of I'm signing up just because I want to see what they send me after I've signed up and what that customer journey is going to look like. On customer journeys, like people will tackle them at the start and say, here's what we've got to do. You're in the off season now. Is there a

Dani Brown (21:34.441)
Always.

Sean (21:43.576)
process that you go through to review those customer journeys, whether they're the key ones you've got going, like reviewing them, how can they be tweaked? Is there a refresh that's needed as well as looking at potentially new ones?

Dani Brown (21:59.549)
Yeah, so we have two that run all the time. So normal welcome kind of insider Thunder insider journey. And then and then our merge journey. Those two we do refresh on a yearly basis. We're actually looking at maybe making them more like monthly, but it would be pieces, right? So we want to have kind of interchangeable pieces is what I'm calling them, where it's like every month we plug in a new little merge thing on the merge journey or, you know, so that you don't

key caps in the middle of the summer and you don't have city jerseys that aren't really available or they launched nine months ago, right? So we wanna change it up a little bit. And so we're kind of thinking of this almost like interchangeable graphics where you can come up with them and just change them each month. But yes, definitely update each year. You don't wanna be welcomed to the same welcome.

More than once and we all know like you forget your email or you change jobs and you sign up with a different one and then you're going through the same thing. like, I saw this. You want to make it fresh. And then we have new programs. We have Rookies Club, which is a youth program that we had that we added this year. It was not in our journey. So we're getting that added. So you always want to just keep it fresh. We are going to do kind of a little bit of a update in general and just like look and feel.

I think to what I said earlier, I just think trying to get some little gifts in there and fun things that just kind of catches people's eyes and maybe do, per your point earlier with emojis, like maybe do some subject testing. We haven't done that. We just kind of like went with our journey and we're like, hopefully that sticks. So maybe some subject testing in there so that we're actually maybe a couple months of subject testing where then rest of the month of the year, then we'll use the whatever wins.

But I do think we could learn a little bit there. I think we just kind of like went and hoped that it would work. And then, yeah, just trying to figure out other avenues. Is it concerts that are nearby or kind of like different lists like that? Or is it a youth journey? We're kind of exploring what the next step might be. But definitely, definitely want to refresh them and keep them hyped and new.

Sean (24:12.822)
And so one of the other things around a list is to have it engaged. And so part of that is, if people do drop off, it's like, do you re -engage them? Is that a journey that you look to trigger of, Sean hasn't opened an email in six months. We need to send him something out. Is that something that you're looking to keep your list engaged with some sort of either a journey or a trigger that kicks off something there?

Dani Brown (24:41.149)
Yeah, so we do some kind of cleanup database, things like that. We're like, hey, it's been a little bit. you know, do you want to stick around? I do think, especially with things like merch, which are, which are very easy to tell, like, Hey, you haven't bought something like they're very concrete numbers. We could do a little bit better to try to figure out a kind of an automated thing for that. But, in general, I think it's, it's, it's hard cause we do see a little, right? Like during the off season, people aren't quite as engaged.

So we kind of try to think through that really, really, really timely. So it's like, hey, we don't want to ask them in the middle of summer. Like you want to stay? Because they may be like, nah, not right now. I'll check back in later. So we really try to make sure that we're thinking through the schedule. So it's right as the season is starting. Hey, are you into it? Do you want to be here? Because you don't want to ask in the middle of summer. It's like, the season just ended. We don't want to, Right.

Sean (25:35.606)
Yep. So it's not something that's ongoing and evergreen. It's sort of season launch and when you're big games to make sure you're pulling those people

Dani Brown (25:40.466)

Yeah, we want to make sure we're not asking at weird times or to your point it's automated where it like comes awkwardly after a loss or you know, something where you're like, that's a little weird. So we want to make sure that it's on our schedule. So we do it, but we do it like where when we want to and when we think it feels feels right to ask.

Sean (26:04.878)
So I just want to ask and sort of get a bit of a rundown of your tech stack and some of the key tools that you use every day. You're running on Microsoft Dynamics and using Eloqua, but what are some of the tools that you're using on a daily, weekly basis?

Dani Brown (26:19.923)
Yeah, so as we have, man, we have so many, I'm trying to think. So yeah, so Elagua, I was like, there's,

Sean (26:26.702)
Well, I mean, that's right. I could show you that infographic of, you know, I think it's now at 8 ,000 tools that you can have in, you know, the marketing and the tech and CRM space at 10 years ago, it was like 112 tools and now I think it's up to 8 ,000 tools. So it can be a long question, but yeah, what are the key, what are some of the key tools that you're using on a daily basis?

Dani Brown (26:44.005)
Yeah, I was trying to think. Yeah, so we have Pylitics is a tool we're using that connects to CRM and our warehouse. We do also use for email, we use something called Nifty Images, which is just kind of makes them cool. like personalizes them and puts your name and be like Sean on the back of a jersey or something like that. So kind of some stuff like that.

I'm trying to think, we use Tableau as our main images for reporting. And I'm like, I live in CRM, that's where my brain is going right now. I dabble a little bit with the metadata, trying to figure out some stuff there. So Facebook and LinkedIn, Zoom info if we're doing B2B to try to target B2B.

Man, out of all questions, this is what's stumping me. I'm like, where do I live in every day? Those are kind of like the main ones that I stay in. Spinzo is a newer one for ticketing that I'm kind of getting into a little bit. it's like offers, like different type of ticket offers, kind of creative offers. Feevo, so I work with them a little for ticket offers.

Sean (28:11.928)
So a lot of them are sort of plugging into that, plugging into that, that ticketing, ticketing equation. You sort of said you're working with meta, is there stuff that you're doing to, working with your paid team to target your list with the, sort of complimenting or augmenting what you're doing from an email point of view, or maybe that's also a way to keep your folks engaged.

Dani Brown (28:12.637)
I'm trying to, I like their stuff, like so many.

Dani Brown (28:42.781)
Yeah, so and it's what we talked about earlier with with where are we targeting the people, right? So if my email doesn't hit well, say we send it out and it's like, yeah, that didn't do what we wanted. Can we use that same list to now target on email? Because it was a good list. It's the right people, but they're not opening, which means, hey, let's get them somewhere else. So so I work really closely with the paid social team and trying to, you know, Google search.

Meta, like I said, LinkedIn, any of those where we can really try to connect with these people in a different way. And then again, report back to see what works. But I definitely think that that's one where we kind of, it's more retargeting for me. Like she's the brains of the operation with all the actual meta fields. But yeah, as far as being able to use lists and retarget or target at the same time, right? Like if we know this is a hot lead for like Pylotix, which I said earlier, it's like, hey, we got to jump on this.

Let's hit them from all angles and see which one hits. So just knowing time is of the essence, like the rep may not be able to get to them right away. Let's try to hit them somewhere else and make sure that we're keeping their attention and grabbing their data or their information or what they're interested in. Even if that rep can't call this week or in the next two weeks, we can try to hit them up somewhere

Sean (29:58.38)
Yeah, I talking to one strategy, one of the teams we work with was for any activations and try to drag in more new to file, which you run a competition and you've got lots of your own fans that will always enter your competitions, but you don't sort of need them. So you'll do the email out and say the competition's only, you'll put it on social and tell the competition's on, but then you'll only advertise to people who aren't on your list. And so you just get new to file. And that's where the paid goes to say, send it to people who aren't on our list yet.

Sean (30:28.314)
And so it's a really good strat, but you need to have all of those pipes and those data lists connected appropriately, so you're good efficient spend in that case.

Dani Brown (30:39.901)
Yeah, for sure. mean, we're definitely wanting to not have the same people. then, and then to your point, being able to exclude. So I think that's a, it's, it's always great to be like, match, match, match, match. But that, that exclude list can, can really help you out a

Sean (30:55.019)
Definitely. Recently, like we said, we caught up at Seaton in Las Vegas and other than an awesome custom shoe design, what were some of your key takeaways?

Dani Brown (31:06.705)
Yeah, every time I go to see my key takeaway, which I said earlier is networking. That's where I meet the people that I can email on a daily basis, weekly basis, say, I got this problem. What are you doing for this? And so to me, it's networking. I love learning and getting ideas. And I come back with a lot of great ideas. But I do think just having those connections and being able to reach out to people when you need that help.

is just the underlying foundation of that conference and being able to just have that network of people that you can rely on.

Sean (31:41.55)
I mean, you're in the NBA and the NBA is very good at work and collegiately among the teams. You catch up with other NBA colleagues at their marketing meetings or their data meetings, but at C, you get that, I'm talking to someone at the NHL or I'm talking to someone at the NFL. Yeah, that is the advantageous part of most conferences.

Dani Brown (31:55.74)
everybody.

Dani Brown (32:04.573)
Well, and a lot of times you go to like an eloquel conference for an example and it's all these things that I'm like not allowed to do. I'm like, well, I can't do that. And I can't do that. And because we have, we have this kind of bigger, you know, NBA and teams and players and all these other things. So it's like, in some ways I can't connect with them and like, well, that doesn't work. Or they use to your point earlier, which I blanked on our tech stack completely, but like they don't have the same tech stacks or they a team of 40 people, which sounds amazing, but I'm like, well, at the time, like I'm a team of one. How does one person do all those great things that you're saying?

And so I think being able to be a teams that have a similar, not only department structure, but a tech stack, different things like that. Yes, there's NBA teams with similar tech stacks, but I can meet an NHL team or something where they like, you have a lot at Microsoft and core and, all, like, I can just go down the line. I'm like, we have all the same stuff. We should hang out.

Let's do a monthly call where we can actually just connect over and over and over. And I always laugh because I have a group where it's like the group. like, we have the same stuff. Tell me what you're doing with this. Like, does it connect to all the things I need? And it's just this long email chain. I don't even know what the subject is. I'm just like, does this work? Are you doing it? And I mean, that's priceless.

Sean (33:27.2)
And I mean, it comes down to what you started the conversation with is networking and finding like -minded people, finding people in like -minded tech stacks or like -minded markets. OKC is a really unique market in the US, but are there other markets that are like it? Because what you're trying to do in OKC would be completely different if someone's trying to do it in New York or LA, because it's just a completely different market size and those kind of things.

Dani Brown (33:56.881)
for sure. For sure. It's a it's a whole different marketing plan. I mean, we like we have very different. I the magic and us have very similar tech stacks. But I'm like, you're doing tourist single game tickets like every game. Like that's your like bread and butter. Right. Because everybody's there for Disney and they go to a magic get like it's like bing bing bing bing. And and that's not the same for Oklahoma City, although hopefully one day it will

But yeah, for us, it's the long -term goal. It's the legacy, it's the building the season ticket member base. Those are the things that are our goals. And so there's very different goals, but do they still have great ideas and we can use some of them? Yes, but there are to your point, I'm like, those are totally different lanes when you're talking strategy.

Sean (34:41.452)
And then from a data point, you sort of just touched on it there. know, teams have very different, I guess, strategies on how they're going to fill their stadium. Like how many are season tickets? How many are single tickets? How many are on group plans? Is that something that like has evolved and you know, you've really had to dive into the data to sort of help set what that looks like for the Thunder?

Dani Brown (35:06.919)
Yeah, I mean, I think in general, it's kind of led by how well the sales go. if sales are sales are going well, then we're like, well, that's the direction we're going. And if they're not, then that's where you get that creative. It's OK. Like, what's next? Is it groups? Is it single game? Like, where do we want to put our time and our resources? But it's kind of led by sales. So if the fans want

Season tickets and season tickets where we're going and I think you kind of have to follow that. It's that whole like try to put a square peg in a round hole, right? Like if you're not, if you're trying to do something that the data and the fans aren't telling you is right, then it's never gonna work. And so you kind of have to like flow and ebb and flow with what they're wanting.

Sean (35:56.012)
Yeah, most definitely. I spoke recently with the Sydney Kings and because they had a slightly smaller venue, they actually, you know, really de -emphasize season tickets because they wanted to get more people in and ended up being, you know, getting more return per seat. But also if they had sold out their season ticket, which they could have, they could have had the whole stadium sold, then, you know, it limits their database. And so it's those kind of kind of equations that are always front of mind when you're trying to fill a stadium.

Dani Brown (36:29.357)
yeah, for sure. And I think you have to be able to have all of those. Like you want that basketball team of kids, per what we talked about earlier with youth, to bring the whole basketball team and come to the game. Like you want to have that growth where you have those moments. But yeah, you want to have a whole bunch of season ticket members too, right? Like that's amazing. But yeah, you have to have kind of that good balance and then you have hospitality things and events that you can host.

But yeah, anything to build a database in and create those moments so that you are creating that legacy, that's kind of that kind of bigger goal than just fill the stadium at that

Sean (37:07.286)
Most definitely. Well, Danny, I really do appreciate you coming on. I want to get to the Sports Geek Closing Five. Do you remember the first sports event you ever attended?

Dani Brown (37:17.929)
So does it have to be professional or like my own?

Sean (37:20.704)
It can be whatever you say because no one can Google it.

Dani Brown (37:25.275)
That's fair, that's fair. So I mean, I played I played T ball and softball and all of that growing up. But I grew up in Arkansas, raise your back fan. And so I would say going to to those basketball and football games growing up as a little kid, I knew how to call the hogs. If you've never heard that Sean, you should look it up. It's very loud. And so it was definitely probably an Arkansas game, if not my own.

because I love playing big stopball and baseball player over here. I was, you can't tell from this video, I'm a little vertically challenged. So basketball was never gonna be my thing, but that's okay. I love it. It just was never gonna be where I was gonna go in playing. yeah, a Razorbacks game for sure in college.

Sean (38:13.676)
Yes, no, no, no problems. And you would have been a lot of sports sports events. Do you have a favorite food or a go to food at a sports event?

Dani Brown (38:24.479)
So I'm kind of a sweet tooth, so really anything sweet to be honest with you, but like a box of Sour Patch Kids, like I feel like you just can't go wrong, like a good box of Sour Patch Kids from some, or if it's like an ice cream stand that has Sour Patch Kids that you can put on ice cream, like I'd be pretty much anything like Sour Gummies, something like that, Trollies, all about

Sean (38:49.166)
Terrific, terrific. What's the first app you open in the

Dani Brown (38:55.847)
Man, so I work out in the morning. So it's probably, I mean, I don't know if it counts on your watch, but it's like, I track my workout. It's probably the first thing that I do. So I wake up, unless you count like turning off my alarm, but like turn off my alarm, get to the gym, track my workout. So that's when I have time to do it.

Sean (39:05.474)
That's fine. That's the first, that's the first app.

Sean (39:14.798)
That's That's fine. is there someone that the podcast listeners should give a follow? Whether it be an author or a colleague that's doing great things or someone that you know that they should give a follow on

Dani Brown (39:29.759)
so I would say this is my own personal plug. Any women in sports, page you can follow. I think just getting it out there, I know that there are a lot of us now, but obviously if we can support any, any more of them and getting, getting them into sports, feel like little girls, look up to us and, and they think like a lot of them think they can't, can't be in it because it's, it's a guy's thing. And I think it's

There's a lot of like Instagram and podcasts and different things that that you can follow and support those. And that just helps little girls know that they can grow up and do the same

Sean (40:07.197)
Most definitely. mean and you're tell us a little bit because you're in part of the women in sports at the Thunder What does what do you what do you do there? What like what I mean what you sort of mentioned there? But what are some of the key things you that you're doing as part of that

Dani Brown (40:20.283)
Yeah, so really just celebrating the months too, right? Like we have Women's Month. There's actually a Girls and Women's and Sports Day that is in, I think it's like February or it changes. I can't remember the exact date. And so just like the awareness, right? Making sure that my girl, I have three girls, so making sure that they see that I work there. I tell them all time, like, I work for the Thunder. And so then they go tell their friends and inevitably the boys are like, no, she

She does not. I'm like, and my kids, yes, she does. She does. So it is interesting now that especially they're getting a little older and kind of understand it. But yeah, just really trying to highlight it. So even if it's just looking at marketing materials and saying like, hey, let's pick a different photo. It's got some women loving it too. really just kind of doing that and recognizing those holidays so that every.

everybody feels recognized at the organization.

Sean (41:21.358)
And especially, you know, in the math science space, you know, I did an IT degree and I think there was 40 people in it and we were, I think they had 15 women in that and that was a high amount in when I did the uni, but there is now, you know, and I've been lucky enough to have a lot of amazing women on the podcast that are in that data analytics space. So it's something that, yeah, I know I'm happy to point to all

Sean (41:50.102)
all the guests that I've had as other inspiration, but totally agree. Lastly, I wanted to ask you what social media platform is your MVP?

Dani Brown (42:01.183)
I'm big Instagram. I love Instagram. I can scroll it all day. I love reels. I think it's just seamless. It's also less words. I just it's faster. It's my thing.

Sean (42:14.798)
Most definitely sometimes you just don't want to be doing any reading and you just want to be flicking and you want to be catching up with what all the all your friends are doing and what they and what they're up to Lastly if there are people who have listened to this podcast and want to reach out to you. What is the best way to do

Dani Brown (42:19.476)
Yep.

just want to keep going.

Dani Brown (42:31.391)
Yeah, I'd say connect with me on LinkedIn. I try to try to be on there the most. Instagram. I'm always on Instagram. Clearly, I just said that. But yeah, Instagram, LinkedIn. mean, my email, I have a lot of mentors and they all say the same thing. Everybody can make 15 minutes. So if you need 15 minutes, like I can find 15 minutes. And I think that, again, going back to networking, like that is the way to get in. if

that's the one, the 15 minutes that you need or the 15 minutes that somebody needs. I think that we can all, we can all give back, especially to the, to anybody looking to get into the sports industry or just youth in general, trying to better themselves and get to their goals.

Sean (43:15.63)
Most definitely, I'll quote Seat Josh Barney's intention. If you're gonna reach out to someone like Danny for that 15 minutes, have some intention like, I wanna know this, or I wanna know what technology you're using, or what things I should be studying. Because then as far as, then it's a really easy 15 minutes view. Like you can answer that question. Whereas if you get someone, I wanna talk to you, and they get on the phone, they go, cool, just tell us everything. It's for

Dani Brown (43:37.748)
yeah, definitely.

Sean (43:43.726)
If you don't, you still gotta put in some of that work if you do reach out and people like yourself are very generous with the time both on this podcast, but then putting out that offer, I always make sure if you're listening to this, don't waste the time. Both yours and Danny's, it's really, because I'll make an impression. Like you get to make impression with that question. And I'm sure your question that you asked 11 or so years ago, that helped you get to the

Dani Brown (43:59.191)
yes, for sure.

Dani Brown (44:12.159)
100%. Yeah, going up and thinking, thinking him to speak if I hadn't done that. I mean, I may have never ran into him again and would have a very different, different life today.

Sean (44:25.102)
Well, thank you very much, Danny. I look forward to catching you sometime. I would love to come to an Oklahoma City Thunder game, even though there is no more Josh Giddy recently traded or would have loved to have seen. short fact, I don't know if I probably told you, I actually know Josh Giddy's dad. So Josh Giddy's dad played for the Melbourne Tigers and that was the team that I cheered on in the 90s. So yeah, so I know Josh's junior team and he's dad and all of that.

Dani Brown (44:34.62)
No.

Dani Brown (44:43.341)
I did

Sean (44:54.936)
know, Josh Giddy's dad played with Ben Simmons' dad. So it was you know, absolute NBA factory there at the Melbourne Tigers. So unfortunately, he's no longer at the Oklahoma City Thunder, but really enjoyed watching him

Dani Brown (45:08.781)
a lot of fun, a lot of fun. And you can just point out that you hung that for me because you had to have it there when we were chatting.

Sean (45:16.364)
No, exactly, exactly. And proudly have it. Like I didn't buy it specifically, had it there, just needed to hang it up. So thanks very much, Danny, and look forward to catching up with you soon.

Dani Brown (45:23.771)
Looks great. Thank you so much.